Wright defends dumbing down again.

[amateur51]

In the first place, I'd agree with tony yyy when he says : "A cynic might think he's been carefully working towards this for many years, replacing presenters with those more to his taste, introducing programmes which largely contain chat and snippets of popular classics and gradually removing programmes which actually discuss music in any depth." He has systematically replaced nearly every programme that he 'inherited', sometimes two or three times. The latest changes show the end of Discovering Music and Night Waves. The main ones that have survived are those that even he wouldn't dare to lay hands on: Composer of the Week, Choral Evensong, Jazz Records Requests.

But I'll try to act as devil's advocate for him. He (or the article) does say: "Speaking of accusations classical music is associated with snobbery, he argued the genre is “no more elitist than Test Match Special”." True. So?

"He added [re classical music] that he had also noticed a tendency for people to dismiss the genre without properly giving it a chance." So you invite them to listen to Radio 3, a station of which they have barely heard?

Now, where he is contradictory:

"Roger Wright defended the addition of music such as the soundtracks from Doctor Who, Star Wars and The Good, the Bad and the Ugly to the Radio 3 repertoire, saying it was “key” to enticing a new generation to appreciate classical music. "

How, exactly, does this entice the new generation to an appreciation of classical music? It is (to them) very familiar non-classical music.

"While warning that classical music should not be the preserve of an educated elite, Mr Wright also defended his station against accusations of dumbing down. He told The Sunday Telegraph there was no point giving the Radio 3 audience “solely what it already knows”. "

But Star Wars, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly &c aren't in any sense unfamiliar to the Radio 3 audience. No more than having Tim Vine choosing The Flight of the Bumblebee, 'Widor's Toccata' and Mars from the Planets Suite. Though listening to Tim Vine may be a new experience ...

"He said he “makes absolutely no apologies” for attempting to appeal to a wider audience, with the broadcast of more accessible music a “key” part of BBC strategy. "

Recte, it was a key part of Radio 3's strategy, confirmed by BBC Trustee, David Liddiment.

"He added that performances such as the John Wilson Orchestra’s Hollywood Rhapsody Prom were now “really key” in Radio 3’s audience development strategy, with young people finding their way into things that would “otherwise feel forbidding”. "

So these are now broadcast on BBC Four and Radio 3, rather than BBC Two and Radio 2, minority stations less frequented by 'young people'.

"“Of course we should be catering for our audience that already has a certain amount of knowledge, but at the same time, we’re also about building new audiences. The whole point of the Proms was to build the largest possible audience, and that holds good for the Proms now and what we’re doing with Radio 3.” "

Yes, but you pulled in the younger people with Doctor Who, urban music &c. What percentage of them are going to be drawn to classical music (not forgetting that the classical music was removed from the Urban Classic Prom when it was televised)?

"“One of the challenges of the busyness of our lives is actually the length of time a lot of classical music takes and that notion that we live in this world in which we expect instantaneous gratification. We have the remote control, which means that, if we don’t like something in two minutes, we’ll flick over to something else.[...] We need to train people to have a longer attention span.”"

So you 'train' people to listen by not playing long pieces. Many of the Breakfast pieces are actually shorter than some of the rock tracks that they will have encountered.

“Of course we should be catering for our audience that already has a certain amount of knowledge" - by steadily marginalising them.

All too true, sadly

[tony yyy]

But I'll try to act as devil's advocate for him.

I suppose we should allow for possible journalistic distortion. Also, and irrationally, I find it difficult not to take what he says as a personal insult, which probably colours the way I read the article.

"He added that performances such as the John Wilson Orchestra’s Hollywood Rhapsody Prom were now “really key” in Radio 3’s audience development strategy, with young people finding their way into things that would “otherwise feel forbidding”

That really baffles me. I rather like some of the John Wilson Orchestra's performances, in small doses (does advancing age shorten one's attention span?), but what attraction could they possibly have for "young people"?

I find it all rather depressing. The Radio 3 I listened to for so many years is becoming a distant memory and I wonder how much longer it can carry on for at all.

[muzzer]

And I say again, where is the follow up? Where is this new audience tempted in by light classics and film scores being taken to next.......?

[jean]

That really baffles me. I rather like some of the John Wilson Orchestra's performances, in small doses (does advancing age shorten one's attention span?), but what attraction could they possibly have for "young people"?

It baffles me too.

When JW comes to conduct the RLPO, the audience is a little different from the usual one, but not noticeably younger.

I know that if I had not been fortunate enough to be exposed to the entire output of the Third Programme as a child, wodges of late Romantic orchestral stuff and film music would probably have turned me off the 'classical' repertoire for ever.

[amateur51]

And I say again, where is the follow up? Where is this new audience tempted in by light classics and film scores being taken to next.......?

Would they take any notice if, for example, a survey seeking to establish the extent of new listeners and the loss of previously established listeners and some detailed in-depth views were to be undertaken by a reputable body. I wonder?

I'd be prepared to put my hand in my piggy bank to part-fund such a survey

[amateur51]

It baffles me too.

When JW comes to conduct the RLPO, the audience is a little different from the usual one, but not noticeably younger.

I know that if I had not been fortunate enough to be exposed to the entire output of the Third Programme as a child, wodges of late Romantic orchestral stuff and film music would probably have turned me off the 'classical' repertoire for ever.

For me it was snippets of light classics on the Light Programme and then theThird Programme and a box of Light Classics by Readers' Digest bought by my father. I was fortunate also to have a Headteacher in my junior school who made listening to weekly schools music programmes a priority.

[Bryn]

For me it was snippets of light classics on the Light Programme and then theThird Programme and a box of Light Classics by Readers' Digest bought by my father. I was fortunate also to have a Headteacher in my junior school who made listening to weekly schools music programmes a priority.

For me, it as via an optical physicist uncle, the one better off uncle, who had his own grand piano in the front room and who also, in the mid-1950s, had an early 'VHF' radio (as FM was then known). When we visited, he often had the Third on, and the clarity of reception, compared to Medium or Long Wave was startling. I eventually badgered my parents into getting one, and use to requisition the Ferrovox my father had use of at his workplace to record (microphone in front of speaker, (until I was brave and foolish enough to wire up to the speaker terminals) the likes of Boulez, Ives, Webern, Varèse et al at every opportunity.

[James Wonnacott]

This got me thinking of when I began to listen to R3- I'd grown up with classical music as my father was a keen hi-fi buff and had a lot of records.
I'd always listen to R4 when driving to work and used to flip around the channels when the sport section came on. R3 was the only channel with no mindless babble so I 'd listen to that for a while until I remembered to flip back to R4. Eventually I stopped flipping back and became a regular listener to Mo3. If this had taken place a few years later I'd have just found mindless babble on R3 too!

[french frank]

Eventually I stopped flipping back and became a regular listener to Mo3. If this had taken place a few years later I'd have just found mindless babble on R3 too!

I never quite know whether quoting The Oldie is a good idea. You do have to realise that they're 'acting' the old fogey - but it would suit some to pretend it's real.

Anyway I've just been sent a clip about Breakfast: "...the modern version is blighted by endless talk. Long-winded and self-important members of the public are not only encouraged to phone in with their views on particular pieces of music, but to text or email their thoughts on the most fatuous matters, few of which have anything to do with music &c &c."

Back from the gym whither I hied early this morning to avoid the forecast gale: I therefore heard the KissFM breakfast programme, also with an endless stream of babble between the music. This is clearly then designed to provide young listeners with what they're used to. Though I suspect they are listening to KissFM or Radio 1 and are unaware how R-A-N-D-O-M Radio 3 is these days.

[ahinton]

Perhaps Arthur Wood's march Barwick Green should be adopted as a station ident for R3 to cement the argument in favour of its dumbing down - you know, dum-di-dum-di-dum-di-dum...

[Tevot]

In the first place, I'd agree with tony yyy when he says : "A cynic might think he's been carefully working towards this for many years, replacing presenters with those more to his taste, introducing programmes which largely contain chat and snippets of popular classics and gradually removing programmes which actually discuss music in any depth." He has systematically replaced nearly every programme that he 'inherited', sometimes two or three times. The latest changes show the end of Discovering Music and Night Waves. The main ones that have survived are those that even he wouldn't dare to lay hands on: Composer of the Week, Choral Evensong, Jazz Records Requests.

But I'll try to act as devil's advocate for him. He (or the article) does say: "Speaking of accusations classical music is associated with snobbery, he argued the genre is “no more elitist than Test Match Special”." True. So?

"He added [re classical music] that he had also noticed a tendency for people to dismiss the genre without properly giving it a chance." So you invite them to listen to Radio 3, a station of which they have barely heard?

Now, where he is contradictory:

"Roger Wright defended the addition of music such as the soundtracks from Doctor Who, Star Wars and The Good, the Bad and the Ugly to the Radio 3 repertoire, saying it was “key” to enticing a new generation to appreciate classical music. "

How, exactly, does this entice the new generation to an appreciation of classical music? It is (to them) very familiar non-classical music.

"While warning that classical music should not be the preserve of an educated elite, Mr Wright also defended his station against accusations of dumbing down. He told The Sunday Telegraph there was no point giving the Radio 3 audience “solely what it already knows”. "

But Star Wars, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly &c aren't in any sense unfamiliar to the Radio 3 audience. No more than having Tim Vine choosing The Flight of the Bumblebee, 'Widor's Toccata' and Mars from the Planets Suite. Though listening to Tim Vine may be a new experience ...

"He said he “makes absolutely no apologies” for attempting to appeal to a wider audience, with the broadcast of more accessible music a “key” part of BBC strategy. "

Recte, it was a key part of Radio 3's strategy, confirmed by BBC Trustee, David Liddiment.

"He added that performances such as the John Wilson Orchestra’s Hollywood Rhapsody Prom were now “really key” in Radio 3’s audience development strategy, with young people finding their way into things that would “otherwise feel forbidding”. "

So these are now broadcast on BBC Four and Radio 3, rather than BBC Two and Radio 2, minority stations less frequented by 'young people'.

"“Of course we should be catering for our audience that already has a certain amount of knowledge, but at the same time, we’re also about building new audiences. The whole point of the Proms was to build the largest possible audience, and that holds good for the Proms now and what we’re doing with Radio 3.” "

Yes, but you pulled in the younger people with Doctor Who, urban music &c. What percentage of them are going to be drawn to classical music (not forgetting that the classical music was removed from the Urban Classic Prom when it was televised)?

"“One of the challenges of the busyness of our lives is actually the length of time a lot of classical music takes and that notion that we live in this world in which we expect instantaneous gratification. We have the remote control, which means that, if we don’t like something in two minutes, we’ll flick over to something else.[...] We need to train people to have a longer attention span.”"

So you 'train' people to listen by not playing long pieces. Many of the Breakfast pieces are actually shorter than some of the rock tracks that they will have encountered.

“Of course we should be catering for our audience that already has a certain amount of knowledge" - by steadily marginalising them.

A splendid critique here of R3's current misguided policy. Do you FF / or do we have any right of reply to RW , the Press or Feedback?

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Anna]

I've been away for a week, north of Manchester. Talk turned to music and I was informed that my hosts had recently attended Bridgewater Hall, they went to a Film Music concert (Manchester Concert Orchestra) - which they declared "fantastic and it made them want to attend another classical music concert"
I just add this information to perhaps underpin the reasoning of having film music on R3 ...... ? However, when I asked if they turned on R3 the answer was blank stares and 'never heard of it'

[french frank]

it made them want to attend another classical music concert"

Like the one they'd just been to? If you really drum it into people that classical music is just film music like Star Wars and Harry Potter, it will hold no fears for them

They don't know what classical music is (except like Bohemian Rhapsody) because the BBC never puts it on the mainstream services. And when they do attend a classical concert, it isn't classical music.

Why can they not see that their Master Plan for 'introducing new listeners to classical music' by NOT playing classical music has a fairly obvious flaw?

[Anna]

Like the one they'd just been to? If you really drum it into people that classical music is just film music like Star Wars and Harry Potter, it will hold no fears for them

They don't know what classical music is (except like Bohemian Rhapsody) because the BBC never puts it on the mainstream services. And when they do attend a classical concert, it isn't classical music.

Why can they not see that their Master Plan for 'introducing new listeners to classical music' by NOT playing classical music has a fairly obvious flaw?

Well, I didn't like to say - but they did attend another at Bridgewater Hall - Tony Hadley (Spandau Ballet in case you don't know) with a full classical orchestra. I didn't like to say because they are members of my family and I'm a bit ashamed they know so little about classical music .... !!! Both 40, Uni graduates, etc., but .... Anyway, they had the BH programme and I suggested some Halle they might like and also some matinees their children might enjoy (the youngest takes ballet and has started to learn the flute). I think next time I go and stay I'll buy some tickets and drag them along to something non-threatening like Tchaikovsky. The televised NY Concert from Vienna fell upon deaf ears apart from the very camp Vivienne Westwood tartan outfits for the ballet.

[Bryn]

Well, I didn't like to say - but they did attend another at Bridgewater Hall - Tony Hadley (Spandau Ballet in case you don't know) with a full classical orchestra. I didn't like to say because they are members of my family and I'm a bit ashamed they know so little about classical music .... !!! Both 40, Uni graduates, etc., but .... Anyway, they had the BH programme and I suggested some Halle they might like and also some matinees their children might enjoy (the youngest takes ballet and has started to learn the flute). I think next time I go and stay I'll buy some tickets and drag them along to something non-threatening like Tchaikovsky. The televised NY Concert from Vienna fell upon deaf ears apart from the very camp Vivienne Westwood tartan outfits for the ballet.

If the kids are going too, make it something like Stravinsky's Rite of Spring or Varèse's Ameriques. They love it, guaranteed.