Wright defends dumbing down again.

[Sir Velo]

“One of the things we need to do is encourage people to listen and get used to listening,” he said (so why ghettoise it on Radio 3 rather than familiarise the willing on mainstream services?).

Indeed, but why must Radio 3 just be about attracting new listeners? Do Radios 1, 2 and 4 base their schedules on pandering to new listeners? Do they ****!

I'm more than mildly cheesed off with the only argument being about how to attract new listeners. How about giving the loyal listeners what they want for a change. And as for "can't give the audience what it already knows" schtick, there's five plus centuries of music from around the globe to play for God's sake. There's absolutely no chance of exhausting the repertoire, so that's a complete load of bull for starters. The guy is (pardon my French) a total w**ker, as his distortion of your arguments, FF, makes abundantly clear.

[Bax-of-Delights]

JW's link is open to all. I had no trouble in reading the article.

I get this message:

"Subscribe today to continue reading

You have reached your limit of 20 free articles a month.
Subscribe today for unlimited access to our award-winning journalism"

I find that about the 25th of each month the various articles that I would like to access are denied to me. As it is only 1.99 a month I really ought to dig into my piggy-bank I suppose.
FF kindly posted an email to FoR3 giving the details of the article - but not the comments (which are always quite illuminating and enjoyable).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Here you go, B-o-D:


Radio 3 boss defends playing of film scores and TV themes

The controller of BBC Radio 3 defends the station from accusations of "dumbing down" and says it will continue to play theme tunes from television shows and films

Roger Wright defended the addition of music such as the soundtrack The Good, the Bad and the Ugly to the Radio 3 repertoire, saying it was “key” to enticing a new generation to appreciate classical music.

By Hannah Furness

To classical purists, it may not be music to their ears. But the controller of BBC Radio 3 has spoken of the importance of television theme tunes and film scores as part of the station’s output, as it tries to capture the attention of younger listeners.

Roger Wright defended the addition of music such as the soundtracks from Doctor Who, Star Wars and The Good, the Bad and the Ugly to the Radio 3 repertoire, saying it was “key” to enticing a new generation to appreciate classical music.

He argued that it was no longer appropriate to cater only for a long-standing, knowledgeable audience.

While warning that classical music should not be the preserve of an educated elite, Mr Wright also defended his station against accusations of dumbing down. He told The Sunday Telegraph there was no point giving the Radio 3 audience “solely what it already knows”.



His intervention comes a fortnight after the Friends of Radio 3, a listeners’ group, wrote to Lord Hall, the BBC director-general, highlighting concerns about the way the corporation treats classical music, and the “extent to which it underestimates the intelligence of the public”.

Referring to budget cuts to classical output, the letter said 720 signatories wished to “express dismay at the decline of a station which was once intelligent, educational and enjoyable”, saying it was “increasingly frequently, none of these things”.

In recent years, others have claimed that the station has appeared to be attempting to appeal to an audience similar to Classic FM, traditionally assumed to be younger with less in-depth knowledge of the genre.

Music from films, musicals and television scores have quickly become part of Radio 3’s output, with the Doctor Who Prom now a regular best-seller. In September, the station participated in the BBC’s “Sound of the Cinema” season, with listeners voting the Star Wars theme tune the most popular film score, followed by The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and West Side Story.

Mr Wright, who is also controller of the Proms, defended the decision to attract new audiences by using familiar music, which he believes will lead to a love of other classical works.

He said he “makes absolutely no apologies” for attempting to appeal to a wider audience, with the broadcast of more accessible music a “key” part of BBC strategy.

Speaking of accusations classical music is associated with snobbery, he argued the genre is “no more elitist than Test Match Special”.

He also spoke of the challenges of providing classical music for a modern audience, with short attention spans and an “instant gratification” culture making it more difficult for people to listen to lengthy pieces.

“When you ask a general audience when it first heard classical music or when it first heard an orchestra, pretty regularly they will refer back to film music or musical theatre,” said Mr Wright.

He added that performances such as the John Wilson Orchestra’s Hollywood Rhapsody Prom were now “really key” in Radio 3’s audience development strategy, with young people finding their way into things that would “otherwise feel forbidding”.

“There’s no point giving the Radio 3 audience solely what it already knows, because that way in the end you diminish the audience; you don’t help to grow it,” he said.

“Of course we should be catering for our audience that already has a certain amount of knowledge, but at the same time, we’re also about building new audiences. The whole point of the Proms was to build the largest possible audience, and that holds good for the Proms now and what we’re doing with Radio 3.”

When asked about accusations of dumbing down, he said those who believed classical music should be kept for an elite were in the minority.

“There will always be people in the audience who want to have this music for themselves and not let anyone else in, but it’s a tiny, tiny percentage,” he said.

“Why should it be that it’s only for a few people who already know about it?”

Claiming that accusations of elitism in classical music were unfair, he said the occasionally esoteric language was no worse than that of science, literature or on Test Match Special.

Mr Wright will today announce that Radio 3 is to spend two weeks of March in residency at the Southbank Centre in London, to allow audiences a further insight into how it works.

Speaking to this newspaper to mark the launch, he also talked about the challenge of presenting classical music to audiences in the modern day.

“One of the things we need to do is encourage people to listen and get used to listening,” he said.

“One of the challenges of the busyness of our lives is actually the length of time a lot of classical music takes and that notion that we live in this world in which we expect instantaneous gratification. We have the remote control, which means that, if we don’t like something in two minutes, we’ll flick over to something else.

“That’s an issue for a piece of music that is 40 minutes long, let alone a Wagner opera which might last four hours.

“That’s something about getting people used to the business of live music. We need to train people to have a longer attention span.” He added that he had also noticed a tendency for people to dismiss the genre without properly giving it a chance.

“I think it’s perfectly OK for people to say they don’t like particular bits of music for whatever reason, because we all have particular tastes,” Mr Wright said.

“But I think what’s disappointing is people say they don’t like something based on no experience of it at all. It’s amazing how many people will have a preconception about a particular composer or group, whatever sort of music it may be, without ever really having sampled it.

“They’ve just picked up the vibe that it’s not particularly fashionable or not for them.

“But when you challenge them, you realise they’ve got no knowledge of it at all, and that’s just lazy thinking.”

[french frank]

as his distortion of your arguments, FF, makes abundantly clear.

His advantage is that he always gets to be interviewed by people who know nothing about the subject, whether it's Roger Bolton on Feedback, a press journalist or anyone at the BBC. He isn't forced to answer the questions that should be answered and he gets away with answering 'criticisms' that haven't been made.

[jayne lee wilson]

"Giving the R3 audience solely what it already knows"? But Performance on 3 concerts often feature mainstream classical rep for weeks on end... between that and Hollywood, there's a lot of great music getting little play, or shunted off to late Saturday or fragments in the afternoons.
Public Service Broadcasting: "giving the public something they didn't know they wanted" - John Walters (John Peel's producer) speaking on Radio 1 on the Janice Long show around 1985... oh yeah, weeks of Star Wars and Close Encounters is really going to do THAT...

As for short-attention-spans - has he never heard of boxsets, bingeviewing or netflix? If the interest is there and the product is of high quality, the will and the commitment come-along-with...

Dismaying lack of clear thinking, really.

[DracoM]

His advantage is that he always gets to be interviewed by people who know nothing about the subject, whether it's Roger Bolton on Feedback, a press journalist or anyone at the BBC. He isn't forced to answer the questions that should be answered and he gets away with answering 'criticisms' that haven't been made.

Which makes the Trust's role of scrutiny behind the scenes even more reprehensible? They should have informed experts, surely? Or am I being naive?

[french frank]

As for short-attention-spans

So we have seven years of playing single movements, then another seven of playing two of the movements, then ...

[Roehre]

....Dismaying lack of clear thinking, really.

Too much honour in my not so humble opinion

[cloughie]

"Giving the R3 audience solely what it already knows"? But Performance on 3 concerts often feature mainstream classical rep for weeks on end... between that and Hollywood, there's a lot of great music getting little play, or shunted off to late Saturday or fragments in the afternoons.
Public Service Broadcasting: "giving the public something they didn't know they wanted" - John Walters (John Peel's producer) speaking on Radio 1 on the Janice Long show around 1985... oh yeah, weeks of Star Wars and Close Encounters is really going to do THAT...

As for short-attention-spans - has he never heard of boxsets, bingeviewing or netflix? If the interest is there and the product is of high quality, the will and the commitment come-along-with...

Dismaying lack of clear thinking, really.

Peel and Walters alas long gone and Janice banished to the early hours on R2. (R2 is abyss-bound too with its mainstream R1.5 output now on to 10pm), RW could talk c**p for England (OK, GB) whilst R3 slides further to CFM2!

[pastoralguy]

Peel and Walters alas long gone and Janice banished to the early hours on R2. (R2 is abyss-bound too with its mainstream R1.5 output now on to 10pm), RW could talk c**p for England (OK, GB) whilst R3 slides further to CFM2!

Part of society's problem today, IMHO, is that those in charge/authority/power are not held to account for their actions/in actions. 18 years in the NHS has taught me that...

[teamsaint]

Part of society's problem today, IMHO, is that those in charge/authority/power are not held to account for their actions/in actions. 18 years in the NHS has taught me that...

or if they are held to account, they manage to walk away with a gigantic payoff......

[Bax-of-Delights]

or if they are held to account, they manage to walk away with a gigantic payoff......

Or, having left the BBC for ITV they then return 18 months later and have two news departments bizarrely outbidding each other financially to get their services. (I refer you to Private Eye's recent report on the case of Laura Kuenssberg).
More licence payer's money going, going, gone.

[tony yyy]

Well, what an interesting article! I don't remember RW being quite so openly disdainful of his station's (former) audience before. A cynic might think he's been carefully working towards this for many years, replacing presenters with those more to his taste, introducing programmes which largely contain chat and snippets of popular classics and gradually removing programmes which actually discuss music in any depth. Now that enough of his changes are in place, perhaps he feels brave enough to be more open about what he's been up to.

The article makes it sound as though he inherited a radio station whose listeners he despised and was determined to replace them. That's no doubt an over-reaction but, really, what's left? There are still some good concerts and the (very) occasional good Do3 (I thought In the Depths of Dead Love was pretty good) but not much else.

All his arguments, assuming they've been reported fairly, sound completely bogus to me. Personally, I don't object to R3 considering film music, if it's done in an interesting way, but I really can't see how playing music from old films is going to attract a 'new generation'.

[pastoralguy]

Well, what an interesting article! I don't remember RW being quite so openly disdainful of his station's (former) audience before. A cynic might think he's been carefully working towards this for many years, replacing presenters with those more to his taste, introducing programmes which largely contain chat and snippets of popular classics and gradually removing programmes which actually discuss music in any depth. Now that enough of his changes are in place, perhaps he feels brave enough to be more open about what he's been up to.

The article makes it sound as though he inherited a radio station whose listeners he despised and was determined to replace them. That's no doubt an over-reaction but, really, what's left? There are still some good concerts and the (very) occasional good Do3 (I thought In the Depths of Dead Love was pretty good) but not much else.

All his arguments, assuming they've been reported fairly, sound completely bogus to me. Personally, I don't object to R3 considering film music, if it's done in an interesting way, but I really can't see how playing music from old films is going to attract a 'new generation'.

[french frank]

In the first place, I'd agree with tony yyy when he says : "A cynic might think he's been carefully working towards this for many years, replacing presenters with those more to his taste, introducing programmes which largely contain chat and snippets of popular classics and gradually removing programmes which actually discuss music in any depth." He has systematically replaced nearly every programme that he 'inherited', sometimes two or three times. The latest changes show the end of Discovering Music and Night Waves. The main ones that have survived are those that even he wouldn't dare to lay hands on: Composer of the Week, Choral Evensong, Jazz Records Requests.

But I'll try to act as devil's advocate for him. He (or the article) does say: "Speaking of accusations classical music is associated with snobbery, he argued the genre is “no more elitist than Test Match Special”." True. So?

"He added [re classical music] that he had also noticed a tendency for people to dismiss the genre without properly giving it a chance." So you invite them to listen to Radio 3, a station of which they have barely heard?

Now, where he is contradictory:

"Roger Wright defended the addition of music such as the soundtracks from Doctor Who, Star Wars and The Good, the Bad and the Ugly to the Radio 3 repertoire, saying it was “key” to enticing a new generation to appreciate classical music. "

How, exactly, does this entice the new generation to an appreciation of classical music? It is (to them) very familiar non-classical music.

"While warning that classical music should not be the preserve of an educated elite, Mr Wright also defended his station against accusations of dumbing down. He told The Sunday Telegraph there was no point giving the Radio 3 audience “solely what it already knows”. "

But Star Wars, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly &c aren't in any sense unfamiliar to the Radio 3 audience. No more than having Tim Vine choosing The Flight of the Bumblebee, 'Widor's Toccata' and Mars from the Planets Suite. Though listening to Tim Vine may be a new experience ...

"He said he “makes absolutely no apologies” for attempting to appeal to a wider audience, with the broadcast of more accessible music a “key” part of BBC strategy. "

Recte, it was a key part of Radio 3's strategy, confirmed by BBC Trustee, David Liddiment.

"He added that performances such as the John Wilson Orchestra’s Hollywood Rhapsody Prom were now “really key” in Radio 3’s audience development strategy, with young people finding their way into things that would “otherwise feel forbidding”. "

So these are now broadcast on BBC Four and Radio 3, rather than BBC Two and Radio 2, minority stations less frequented by 'young people'.

"“Of course we should be catering for our audience that already has a certain amount of knowledge, but at the same time, we’re also about building new audiences. The whole point of the Proms was to build the largest possible audience, and that holds good for the Proms now and what we’re doing with Radio 3.” "

Yes, but you pulled in the younger people with Doctor Who, urban music &c. What percentage of them are going to be drawn to classical music (not forgetting that the classical music was removed from the Urban Classic Prom when it was televised)?

"“One of the challenges of the busyness of our lives is actually the length of time a lot of classical music takes and that notion that we live in this world in which we expect instantaneous gratification. We have the remote control, which means that, if we don’t like something in two minutes, we’ll flick over to something else.[...] We need to train people to have a longer attention span.”"

So you 'train' people to listen by not playing long pieces. Many of the Breakfast pieces are actually shorter than some of the rock tracks that they will have encountered.

“Of course we should be catering for our audience that already has a certain amount of knowledge" - by steadily marginalising them.