I detest using Amazon for classical music

[Guest]

I have no idea where Amazon got the idiot from who designed their database. Clearly he/she has never bought a piece of classical music in their life. Trying to locate a specific CD is one of the most depressing activities I know. Ever tried to find, say, a specific version of Rachmaninov Symphony No 2? How many days do you have?

The sensible approach would be for them to have had a datafield for EMI 9494622, whatever. Then you could go straight to it. Job done. Instead, I rapidly lose the will to live.

Answer: never buy a classical CD from Amazon.

[/rant over]

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

er they are all like that .... the first and biggest dbases were for pop and the track is supreme .... [and retail shelving has a lot to answer for]

i haven't found MDT a lot better .....

[MickyD]

If it is a specific version of Rachmaninov 2 that you want, then why not just enter the desired orchestra/conductor's name next to the work in the search engine? e.g. Rachmaninov Symphony 2/Ashkenazy. It comes up easily enough.

[Don Petter]

I don't think it's that bad - and better than a lot of other suppliers. After all, they do give you seven main search fields (Keyword/Work/Composer/Performer/Conductor/Orchestra/Label) as well as six more trivial ones.

I always find MDT annoying because if you don't get their label field exactly correct (e.g. EMI Classics, not just EMI) the search returns nothing, which really means to use it you must drop down their long label list.

[Bryn]

Indeed, while the absence of manufacturer catalogue numbers from the amazon database is annoying, (mainly from the point of view of searching for comparative prices from a range of suppliers, where I am concerned), as long as you enter sensible search criteria it is usually fairly easy to find what you want. I certainly find it far, far superior to the search facility for classical recordings at hmv.com. Their basic search facility is the pits. All too often the only way to find stuff there is if you already know the catalogue number. Searching for a combination of composer, title and performer often brings up zero results, but finding the catalogue number using another site, then using that as your search criterion at hmv.com does the trick.

[BetweenTheStaves]

I don't think it's that bad - and better than a lot of other suppliers. After all, they do give you seven main search fields (Keyword/Work/Composer/Performer/Conductor/Orchestra/Label) as well as six more trivial ones.

I always find MDT annoying because if you don't get their label field exactly correct (e.g. EMI Classics, not just EMI) the search returns nothing, which really means to use it you must drop down their long label list.

Where do you find keyword/work/composer/ etc, Don?

[Uncle Monty]

Yes, I haven't got shares in Amazon or anything, but I've never had much trouble with them! Searches like "mahler zander" or "vaughan williams poisoned" always come up with the goods. And you can tweak it to show results by publication date if you have any idea what it is.

However, ordering a book on Bruckner last week and having one on Stravinsky turn up left me slightly less kindly disposed

[Nick Armstrong]

I have no idea where Amazon got the idiot from who designed their database. Clearly he/she has never bought a piece of classical music in their life. Trying to locate a specific CD is one of the most depressing activities I know. Ever tried to find, say, a specific version of Rachmaninov Symphony No 2? How many days do you have?

The sensible approach would be for them to have had a datafield for EMI 9494622, whatever. Then you could go straight to it. Job done. Instead, I rapidly lose the will to live.

Answer: never buy a classical CD from Amazon.

[/rant over]

BTS I have never had the slightest difficulty using amazon to satisfy even my more arcane tastes in specific performances of classical music. I just don't understand the problem if you are using the right search terms.

Your illustration reminded me that in fact I wanted to look up the new Pappano version of Rach 2 (heard the last movement on In Tune last night, sounded great!) - pop in the general search box "Rachmaninov Pappano" and Sergei's your Uncle.

How very strange you have been driven to such depression by what always seems to me a most user friendly site, even for the classical boffin...

[Curalach]

Like Caliban, I have never thought the Amazon site to be difficult to use. I do use it a lot so familiarity may help. HMV, which I also use a lot, can be much more unpredictable but I've always managed to get what I want in the end.
I'm afraid I gave up on MDT a long time ago.

[Don Petter]

Where do you find keyword/work/composer/ etc, Don?

BtS,

Well, you need advanced search, which option doesn't seem to come up on the opening page! Under Departments, click on Music, DVD & Games, then choose Music. Then you will see an 'Advanced Search' button. Click on this and you will get the 'pop' version. It does say, however, 'Looking for Classical? - Click Here' and this will take you to the Classical Advanced Search. (Or you can select 'Classical Music' under the column of Advanced Search choices on the left.)

It is a bit of a performance to get there, but once you're used to it you can do it without thinking.

Hope this helps,

Don.

[BetweenTheStaves]

Mmm..Caliban, I entered the name of the orchestra in the basic search field which seemed the logical thing to do. It came up with 33 or so results, none was the Rachmaninov. And as I'm not willing to second guess what particular quirky input their database needs in order to locate the right CD when a simple EMI 9494622 would take me straight there, well, to be honest life is too short and I rest my case.

Don..I found the Advanced Search, thanks. So thought I'd try Rachmaninov 2 with the Royal Phil. The data field descriptions are somewhat nebulous but anyway...this is what I entered

album/work title Symphony 2
composer Rachmaninov
orchestra Royal Philharmonic

and the results from their super-duper-ultra-naff database?


The Only Classical Album You'll Ever Need

100 Popular Classics

Relax More

Classical Vitality

Relax

Those were the first five.

No...I do not retract. The Amazon database is rubbish.

[Nick Armstrong]

It's odd, do you have similar problems searching things on google? Because both follow a search logic which seems to suit the way my mind works in terms of putting in search terms. For instance I just put into the general search box on amazon "Rachmaninov RPO" and got a perfectly respectable set of 10 results back...

Given your experiences however, maybe indeed they are less adapted to other mind sets, in which case I would concede that the database lacks flexibility. But then again, putting into the search box just the name of the orchestra I would suggest is not a useful thing to do if you know you are looking for a Rachmaninov recording - I put in just "RPO" and got 9,851 results, totally useless for practical purposes. You do need to think which key words are going to refine it down - if you know you are after a Rachmaninov recording by the RPO - why not put both words in? However, there's no need to use 'Advanced Search' or anything complicated...

[Bryn]

All very stange, but I fear the fault lies not with Amazon. I just tried using "rachmaninov" and "Pappano" as my sole search terms in the main search window and the CD came straight up. I them tried "Rachmaninoff" and "Pappano" and was simply asked whether I meant "rachmaninov Pappano". It then again took me straight to the CD. Simples!

[BetweenTheStaves]

After talking to a very helpful chap called Greg at Amazon, he went the extra distance and did a little digging. They do carry the bar code details in their database. For example 5099994946222 is the new Papano Rachmaninov 2. But to know that information, you probably need to have the CD in your hand! Maybe it's the BBC's fault for listing the EMI number EMI 9494622. Clearly there is some correlation between the two. But how do you know that EMI maps onto 50999?

Digging a little deeper, I took out 2 CD's at random.

First one I tried on RCA Victor...enter the barcode 9026-68183-2 brings it up fine. Use the number on the spine of the CD inner cover (which has a leading 0) and it's not found. So that seems down to the record company! Entering Sibelius/Symphony 1/London Symphony Orchestra/Colin Davis yields 8 results which is manageable.

Next on Naxos Shostakovitch Symphony 8 ..enter bar code 891030506282 yields nothing. Entering Symphony 8/Shostakovich/slovak(conductor)/czecho-slovak radio SO/naxos brings it up.

So not really sure what I've found out. Not as simple as it seems.

But the Advanced Search is promising and so, Don et al, I thank you for that suggestion.

[Nick Armstrong]

All very stange, but I fear the fault lies not with Amazon. I just tried using "rachmaninov" and "Pappano" as my sole search terms in the main search window and the CD came straight up. I them tried "Rachmaninoff" and "Pappano" and was simply asked whether I meant "rachmaninov Pappano". It then again took me straight to the CD. Simples!

Very simples!