What birds (are you/have you been) watching? What birds have been watching you?

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  • ardcarp
    Late member
    • Nov 2010
    • 11102

    Here's a [slightly illiterate] piece about this seagull behaviour:

    Nikolaas Tinbergen was a Dutch ethologist and ornithologist whose work in animal behaviour earned him a Nobel Prize. Tinbergens four questions that are asked of any animal behaviour can be applied to the observed behaviour of the seagull dance. His theory states that every behaviour has a cause, development, evolution and function. The cause of this “dancing” behaviour could be attributed to periods of rain in which the seagulls can take advantage. The dance is a learned trick to coax worms to the surface. Earthworms stay underground unless flooded out by rainwater. The vibrations sent into the ground resemble that of rain or an approaching
    mole. The seagull dance is a taught behaviour and develops with age. The elder seagulls can be seen teaching young the padding motion on grass. The dance is therefore a learned or possibly inherited behaviour. Environmental factors play a role in the dance as it is more commonly seen in birds which have to supplement their diet or have moved inland away from the coast. The rain dance is used by other bird species also, for example similar tactics can be observed in thrushes.

    The evolution of this behaviour using the land to obtain a food source could be sited to the origins of seagulls. If assumptions are correct that seagulls originated in moor lands as oppose to the marine environment they currently inhabit, this could be a plausible explanation for the possession of the grass dance. The moor environment would be wet and boggy allowing for successful use of rain mimicking. The rain “dance” is clearly an advantageous adaptation aiding in the survival by supplying the gulls with a tasty bite. Members of the flock are able to work together carrying out the padding action to enhance the success of the action and enable them to gain higher levels of worms.

    The grass dance demonstrates how gulls are able to exploit the intrinsic behaviour of the earthworm to their advantage. The rain dance is clearly a
    beneficial behaviour as it helps the gulls to adapt to other ways of life away from the coast supplementing their scavenger diet.

    I just wonder when this 'learned behaviour' started. Does any one (old enough) remember them doing it, say, 50 years ago? I do know that some learned behaviour amongst gulls had definitely developed in recent years, e.g. picking up shellfish, flying up and dropping them from a great height to break the shells and get at the meat. This was told us by an ornithologist on one of the River Exe birdwatching 'cruises'.

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    • Richard Tarleton

      Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
      I do know that some learned behaviour amongst gulls had definitely developed in recent years, e.g. picking up shellfish, flying up and dropping them from a great height to break the shells and get at the meat. This was told us by an ornithologist on one of the River Exe birdwatching 'cruises'.
      Crows do this too - but yes, locally learned behaviour. I used to work at a coastal nature reserve where hooded crows ate mussels, which they picked up from the mudflats and dropped on the nearby pebble beach to break the shells. This behaviour is not new - perhaps more noticeable among gulls with increased gull numbers? (just an idea).

      Nico Tinbergen - great man. I used to work with someone who knew him from his gull studies at Walney Island. He was a colleague of Konrad Lorenz - they shared the Nobel Prize (also with Karl von Frisch), but their relationship was strained after WW2 on account of Lorenz's wartime role.

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      • Serial_Apologist
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 37710

        Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
        I just wonder when this 'learned behaviour' started. Does any one (old enough) remember them doing it, say, 50 years ago? I do know that some learned behaviour amongst gulls had definitely developed in recent years, e.g. picking up shellfish, flying up and dropping them from a great height to break the shells and get at the meat. This was told us by an ornithologist on one of the River Exe birdwatching 'cruises'.
        I'm surprised by the article's suggestion that seagulls may have originated from moorland, given their webbed feet - which in their turn must aid the effectiveness of their raindance in procuring worms, I would have thought.

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        • Richard Tarleton

          Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
          I'm surprised by the article's suggestion that seagulls may have originated from moorland, given their webbed feet - which in their turn must aid the effectiveness of their raindance in procuring worms, I would have thought.
          Here's an original paper on the subject from British Birds by Tinbergen (who is also author of The Herring Gull's World).

          We're talking about herring gulls and black-headed gulls here ("seagulls" but a colloquialism - we have 19 species of gull in our region, some equally at home on inland river and marsh, others exclusively marine).

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          • ardcarp
            Late member
            • Nov 2010
            • 11102

            ...and common gulls are far less common than the herring gull, the greater black-backed gull and the black-headed gull (which often doesn't have a very black head in winter). Hope I've got that right, RT.

            Comment

            • Richard Tarleton

              Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
              ...and common gulls are far less common than the herring gull, the greater black-backed gull and the black-headed gull (which often doesn't have a very black head in winter). Hope I've got that right, RT.


              The trouble with gulls is....they keep coming up with new species. What were once races, then subspecies, are now species. Herring gull, then yellow-legged gull, now Caspian gull....Back in 1982, when Peter Grant's Gulls - A Guide to Identification - was published, there was just the herring gull....I was quite good at gull i/d then

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              • Vox Humana
                Full Member
                • Dec 2012
                • 1251

                Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post


                The trouble with gulls is....they keep coming up with new species. What were once races, then subspecies, are now species. Herring gull, then yellow-legged gull, now Caspian gull....Back in 1982, when Peter Grant's Gulls - A Guide to Identification - was published, there was just the herring gull....I was quite good at gull i/d then
                I know that feeling. I'm afraid I've simply given up with the large, white-headed gulls.

                Comment

                • Serial_Apologist
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 37710

                  Whatever people say, gulls will be gulls.

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                  • greenilex
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 1626

                    To go back to the paddling, what other avian percussionists come to mind? Woodpeckers have got rhythm, and the thrush with her snail can be rhythmical.

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                    • doversoul1
                      Ex Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 7132

                      Originally posted by greenilex View Post
                      To go back to the paddling, what other avian percussionists come to mind? Woodpeckers have got rhythm, and the thrush with her snail can be rhythmical.
                      Blue and Great tits hammering at my window demanding more peanuts.

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                      • Vox Humana
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2012
                        • 1251

                        A "singing" Nightjar sounds a bit like someone with a pair of drumsticks playing a roll on a woodblock.

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                        • ardcarp
                          Late member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 11102

                          That's a nice one. I always think it's like a distant pneumatic drill....but I shall listen with new ears come the nightjar season. (Must look out my white hat.)

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                          • greenilex
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 1626

                            Following on from birds/noise theme, does anyone know whether birds still in the egg respond to parental noise? At what stage of embryonic development is hearing present? Earlier than with mammals, I would guess...

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                            • ardcarp
                              Late member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 11102

                              I'm sure there must be a scientific paper somewhere, but in the meantime......

                              Turn up the volume!While I was taking the hen outside for a potty / worm-finding break, I noticed one of the eggs had started hatching. I picked it up and it...

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                              • greenilex
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 1626

                                Doversouls tits were all over the plum tree yesterday, inspecting fat buds.

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