8 composers you can live without

[Richard Barrett]

But do you like listening to his music? I know I do.

I'm afraid not. I thought of it because by chance I heard two relatively large works of his in concerts recently, the B minor Sonata and some folky thing for piano and orchestra whose title I forget, and I found them both very tedious indeed.

[Beef Oven!]

I'm afraid not. I thought of it because by chance I heard two relatively large works of his in concerts recently, the B minor Sonata and some folky thing for piano and orchestra whose title I forget, and I found them both very tedious indeed.

Well I hope you don't say that of his 'Années de Pèlerinage', or Abba's 'Dancing Queen'.

[Ferretfancy]

I needn't bother to strip the cellophane from the cover of the disc with the current BBC MM, Tavener's the Protecting Veil and Finzi's Dies Natalis. Both composers are high on my list of the unwanted. As for Tavener, I don't mind The Whale as it makes a nice noise, but the rest is sunk in pretension, and that awful hair! Finzi is just Vaughan Williams and water.
I'll think of the rest of my list later.

[Richard Tarleton]

On topic, a composer I can definitely do without is Franz Liszt. I quite like his Paganini and Schubert arrangements but when he doesn't have someone else's melodic imagination to fall back on he really seems to struggle (unsuccessfully) to come up with anything memorable. Maybe the serial method could have been his salvation if it had been invented in time.

Richard you might as well accuse Chopin of lacking melodic invention (perhaps you do). To suggest the composer of the Années, Harmonies Poetiques, Liebestraum, Consolations, Concert Studies, Transcendental Studies, and that's just for starters, is lacking in melodic imagination, is unsustainable as an argument. His influence on Wagner was profound - consider Wagner's "Open Letter on Liszt's Symphonic Poems" of 1857. You may be able to do without Liszt, but the history of music as we know it, not to mention pianism, certainly couldn't.

Sadly I've got to dash out now so may have to continue this later

[Sir Velo]

Maybe the serial method could have been his salvation if it had been invented in time.

Well given he is credited with some of the earliest atonal compositions ("Unstern"; "Nuage gris" etc) he was well on his way there.

[Nick Armstrong]

On topic, a composer I can definitely do without is Franz Liszt. I quite like his Paganini and Schubert arrangements but when he doesn't have someone else's melodic imagination to fall back on he really seems to struggle (unsuccessfully) to come up with anything memorable.

Interesting way of putting it which accords with my perception too....

You may be able to do without Liszt, but the history of music as we know it, not to mention pianism, certainly couldn't.

Also true.

And as is usual with foundations, while acknowledging their vital importance, I find the work of those who built upon his foundations much more pleasing aesthetically than the foundations themselves...

[Serial_Apologist]

Interesting way of putting it which accords with my perception too....


Also true.

And as is usual with foundations, while acknowledging their vital importance, I find the work of those who built upon his foundations much more pleasing aesthetically than the foundations themselves...

I think you've hit both nails on the head here, Cali.

Another composer whom I greastly admire, and love in some respects, is Messiaen, having been capitivated by the rhythms and colours of "Chronochromie" from the first time I heard it, aged 15. But as for the germ theme of the "Vingt Regards", and that "Theme of Love" in "Turangalila", !!! A case of lacking self-criticism in genius comparable with the banaLiszt (a big influence on Messiaen directly and via the Franckistes) - and I can think of living figures whom I shall not name. That his road to heaven was paved with good intentions is for well illustrated in some of the early works ("Le Banguet Celeste", "Offrandes"), those written after "Turangalila", and in his disciples.

[amateur51]

I've been able to do that for 50 years, and I can whistle an entire tune in 3rds.

But can you do it in the company of decent folk?

[Quarky]

I have put together a little list, which reflects my current state of mind, but some are on parole, and I may revert to them further down the road:

Chopin
Schubert
Schumann
Mendelsohn
Philip Glass
Many other minimalists
G&S (permanent veto)
Glen Miller ( ear worm vendor)

[Richard Barrett]

Richard you might as well accuse Chopin of lacking melodic invention (perhaps you do).

By no means actually, I have a lot of time for Chopin. I was really just commenting on the pieces I heard recently, but I've heard all those other pieces you mention at least once each and I have to say none of them made much of an imprint on my memory. Of course Liszt was very influential (and I do like those late atonal pieces actually), but then so was Schoenberg and I don't much like his music either, in fact (since we're here) he's another composer I could live without. Acknowledging someone's historical importance isn't the same thing as wanting to hear their music!

[Serial_Apologist]

By no means actually, I have a lot of time for Chopin. I was really just commenting on the pieces I heard recently, but I've heard all those other pieces you mention at least once each and I have to say none of them made much of an imprint on my memory. Of course Liszt was very influential (and I do like those late atonal pieces actually), but then so was Schoenberg and I don't much like his music either, in fact (since we're here) he's another composer I could live without. Acknowledging someone's historical importance isn't the same thing as wanting to hear their music!

I suppose it is just about possible that twentieth century modernism could have arisen without Schoenberg, but I think the resultant atonality would have been greatly impoverished, and of much less influence.

[Richard Barrett]

I suppose it is just about possible that twentieth century modernism could have arisen without Schoenberg, but I think the resultant atonality would have been greatly impoverished, and of much less influence.

Maybe. (Although again I don't think that's a reason to like Schoenberg's music, which in general I don't, and I hope you'll believe me when I say that's not a view formed out of ignorance or closed-mindedness!) (and actually I do like Moses und Aron a lot, and a few other things.) On the other hand my feelings about Messiaen's Turangalîla are quite opposite to yours, and I don't really see where "lack of self-criticism" comes into it - it's at least as tightly structured and interconnected as anything by Schoenberg in fact.

Another three composers I can easily do without are Elgar, Delius and Britten. I'll get to eight before long I'm sure.