Patten v. Thompson

[amateur51]

Interesting contend re the future for the Trust....Richard Eyre + others on Media Show R4 11min 30sec into programme....http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ers_BBC_Trust/

I was going to flag this up, many thanks eighth - well worth a listen.

[french frank]

Culture Secretary Maria Miller has spoken at the Royal Television Society convention of the BBC's 'annus horribilis'. There may be better written stories than the BBC version.

[zoomy]

Part of the problem with the BBC is the Tory obsession that business people can run anything - hence their disastrous decision to bring them into the BBC in the first place.

And why do we have a divisive figure like Chris Patten heading up the governors - a man who used to be one of John Major's closest allies, so close that when he was ejected from his Dorset constituency in the 1992 election, Major sent him off to be our last and most crucial governor of Hong Kong where he succeeded in upsetting the Chinese with a petulant book describing his negotiations with the Chinese - a book, incidentally that Murdoch refused to publish through his Longman publishing company even after paying him an advance, because of his commercial interests in China.

[Resurrection Man]

Part of the problem with the BBC is the Tory obsession that business people can run anything - hence their disastrous decision to bring them into the BBC in the first place.

What a daft statement "Tory obsession that business people can run anything" . The BBC is a business or perhaps you hadn't quite appreciated that fact.

And why do we have a divisive figure like Chris Patten heading up the governors - a man who used to be one of John Major's closest allies, so close that when he was ejected by the people in his Dorset constituency in the 1992 election, Major sent him off to be our last and most crucial governor of Hong Kong where he succeeded in upsetting the Chinese with a petulant book describing his negotiations with the Chinese - a book, incidentally that Murdoch refused to publish through his Longman publishing company even after paying him an advance, because of his commercial interests in China.

Do I hear the sound of tubs being thumped again?

[Richard Barrett]

The BBC is a business or perhaps you hadn't quite appreciated that fact.

The BBC contains wholly-owned subsidiaries like BBC Worldwide which are businesses, but these contribute only about 20% of its income and I don't think the word "business" rightly applies to the BBC as a whole. It's supposed to provide a public service rather than turn a profit; but then I can remember when that was also true of electricity, gas, water and the railways.

[Resurrection Man]

We should avoid the vexation and impertinence of pedants, who affect to talk in a language not to be understood. Jonathan Swift.

[ahinton]

And why do we have a divisive figure like Chris Patten heading up the governors - a man who used to be one of John Major's closest allies, so close that when he was ejected from his Dorset constituency

Bath wasn't in Dorset when I lived there...

[ahinton]

We should avoid the vexation and impertinence of pedants, who affect to talk in a language not to be understood. Jonathan Swift.

I do not see the point in this quotation unless you at least make a stab at accounting for its presence; taken on its own, it contains nothing that directly relates to the thread topic as far as I can see.

[french frank]

"Tory obsession that business people can run anything" . The BBC is a business or perhaps you hadn't quite appreciated that fact.

Most businesses don't get billions of pounds of public funds to allow them to operate at all. The public pays for the BBC: the public has a right to a service.

It's recognised that the BBC is a 'hybrid' organisation, a publicly-funded organisation operating in a commercial market, but it's been the BBC's decision to compete with the market by providing similar fare. If it had stuck to its public service remit: 'to inform, educate and entertain' - that is place at least as much weight on education as on entertainment there might not be such a battle to regain the ethos of 'self-education' from a public so enamoured (apparently) with celebrity culture and popular culture. There is no plurality of choice if the BBC opts to do 'the same thing but better' as the commercial market.

It's important for the BBC to be aspirational, even idealistic, in order to encourage the public to be so: businessmen have business instincts - they want increased growth and profits.

[french frank]

And why do we have a divisive figure like Chris Patten heading up the governors

Taking this as a straight request for information - Labour appointed Michael Lyons, a prominent figure in the Labour movement, to the annoyance of the Conservatives. The Conservatives appointed Patten, an even more prominent figure in the Conservative Party.

There seems to be a view that you need to have a person capable of chairing and keeping control of meetings effectively, carrying out negotiations at the highest levels, arguing a case and hopefully having the force of character (!?) to carry such proposals into effect. He [sic] need have no experience of broadcasting, production or any aspect of the BBC's core business.

Under the new regulatory framework brought in post-Hutton, the Trust has to be completely independent of management/the Executive and yet it has to sit in judgement on all strategic broadcasting proposals. In practice it relies heavily on what the managers propose, not only in broadcasting matters (about which they know nothing) but also - as we have recently seen - in financial matters, in which most of them seem to have been equally at sea.

[This is my personal analysis based on experience.]

[eighthobstruction]

We should avoid the vexation and impertinence of pedants, who affect to talk in a language not to be understood. Jonathan Swift.

Ref BBC business : Sky, ITV, UK Gold, etc all have to have huge numbers of staff making and maintaining revenue from different sources....sponsorship, adverts etc....The BBC does not, it has £what? 3.5 billon placed on a plate every year....see the way BTnet is trying to find a cash cow now with all the adverts ref sport....BBC's ' business ' is an odd construct....which needs commercial staff, admin state, logistic staff etc like all business', but BBC has many sides (the govt for one ) poking their noses around that affect/effect outcomes whereas completely free commercial enterprises only have to comply with govt regulators....it really is a hybrid....

[Serial_Apologist]

I was going to flag this up, many thanks eighth - well worth a listen.

I listened to this, and probably should again, as overlapping interjections got in the way of understanding the issues being raised, in my (thick) case. For me the most salient issues started being raised in the final few seconds after a lot of repetitiousness: the lady contributant had made out a case for an "overlapping board" of governors to replace the current one, as I understood her; but, overlapping between what and what? And she seemed to be making the most clearly distinguished, non-waffly case.

Off-com was being touted as a replacement for the Trust: what would be the problems? In the end I was left with an impression that in the instance of a non-interventionist Trust regarding programming style and detail and unsuitable personalities on the bog (board of governors!) the best solution, exemplified by the ability of the BBC still to function at its best, (Toady still being the BBC at its best, notwithstanding...), would be for the rank-and-file to throw out all the bosses and set up a workers' co-operative in which bosses would be elected on double the average national wage and made accountable subject to recall within a reasonable timleine established by the workforce through a public consultation.

[Resurrection Man]

......
Off-com was being touted as a replacement for the Trust: what would be the problems? In the end I was left with an impression that in the instance of a non-interventionist Trust regarding programming style and detail and unsuitable personalities on the bog (board of governors!) the best solution, exemplified by the ability of the BBC still to function at its best, (Toady still being the BBC at its best, notwithstanding...), would be for the rank-and-file to throw out all the bosses and set up a workers' co-operative in which bosses would be elected on double the average national wage and made accountable subject to recall within a reasonable timleine established by the workforce through a public consultation.

Meanwhile back in the real world, there is nothing inherently wrong IMO with the concept of a BBC Trust. Just that the particular incumbents of this Trust are out of their depth and clueless when it comes to either running a public sector broadcaster or a business. OFCOM would be a disaster IMO....just look at how they are (not) handling DAB and the putative FM Switchoff.

[Serial_Apologist]

Meanwhile back in the real world, there is nothing inherently wrong IMO with the concept of a BBC Trust. Just that the particular incumbents of this Trust are out of their depth and clueless when it comes to either running a public sector broadcaster or a business. OFCOM would be a disaster IMO....just look at how they are (not) handling DAB and the putative FM Switchoff.

You won't get anybody better in charge who's not motivated by personal gain but public service ethos unless you at least consider a suggestion such as mine.

[Richard Barrett]

for the rank-and-file to throw out all the bosses and set up a workers' co-operative in which bosses would be elected on double the average national wage and made accountable subject to recall within a reasonable timleine established by the workforce through a public consultation.

The fact that this would be considered (and not only by someone like RM) as being elsewhere than in the "real world" is a triumph for neoliberal propaganda.