The Round Ball Game

[gurnemanz]

My last words on this (for now)! Sorry about the length.


WFC was groundsharing at Selhurst Park with Crystal Palace, who do not own Selhurst either

Thanks for that detailed report. One of my best friends at school in the 1960s was a huge Wimbledon fan in Plough Lane days. They were a bit of a cult team (more conventional bandwagon jumpers around that area of London would support Chelsea or Fulham) and I have always had a soft spot for them, even when they moved in as a cuckoo in our nest for about ten years mostly, annoyingly, in a higher division than us (our yo-yo period). During this time they also managed to set the record for the Premier League's lowest ever attendance (about 3000).

A small point but a significant one for Palace fans: "Crystal Palace, who do not own Selhurst either" should of course read "Crystal Palace, who did not own Selhurst at the time". Should anyone be interested here is a good account of the Machiavellian saga which finally and triumphantly led to Palace actually owning their own ground.

[teamsaint]

Football club ownership is indeed a desperately shady business. The endlessly unbelievable goings on at nottarf krap , in a long forgotten corner of Hampshire are testament to that. Over the past few years, their various owners seem to have included a person who didn't actually exist......who knows.
for anybody who is interested, there is a cheeky little thread on our rivals ownership and other issues here

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?14620-Pompey-Takeover-Saga

Just to save you the bother there are 78500 posts and counting. And believe me, it really IS that complex !

As regards Wimbledon, it would be good to see them back in a stadium of their own , in their own borough one day. I visited Plough Lane a couple of times....lovely days out ruined by Fash the Bash etc !

[cloughie]

My last words on this (for now)! Sorry about the length.

Aeolium, to answer your point: "The big problem was the sheer cost of a new stadium which would comply with the requirements of the Taylor report - for a club in financial difficulties (it went into administration) in the borough of Merton where property and redevelopment cost would be huge. What would have happened to Wimbledon FC had there been no relocation - would it have survived?"

The Norwegian owners of Wimbledon FC were squillionaires and had bought the club (they said) with the intention of building a new stadium. At that time the old Plough Lane site was still vacant and the supporter’s association commissioned architect’s drawing to show the site could accommodate a 20,000-seater stadium.

There are a number of sites in Merton which could be used for a stadium and which AFC Wimbledon is currently looking at. Enabling development could provide the finance.

WFC was groundsharing at Selhurst Park with Crystal Palace, who do not own Selhurst either (so arguments about needing cash flow from facilities such as function rooms are groundless). Nor do MK Dons own their stadium.

Had the fans been able to buy the club (we were never offered the chance) it would probably have fallen a couple more divisions before finding its true level, which is where AFC Wimbledon are now, but it could have survived
(NB WFC went into administration well after the FA had given the green light for MK, we’d set up AFC Wimbledon and the gates at Selhurst were derisory).

The truth is that it was a property deal. Asda had been trying to get planning permission to build a superstore near MK for years. But planning regulations stopped them. However, these rules can be got round by providing community facilities such as a stadium. For Asda, the cost of a new stadium was well worth paying, given the profits they’d make from the superstore. But MK didn’t have a league football club to justify such a stadium. So Winkelman, the frontman for the consortium which was basically Asda, set about trying to attract a football club to the town and had also approached Luton, QPR and Barnet.

Once the Norwegians had decided to collude in all this, they turned the argument on its head. It wasn’t “Asda needs a football team in MK” (Asda’s interest at the time was kept secret, of course), it was “WFC is going bust and we don’t own our stadium.” They painted the club’s finances in the blackest possible light because it suited their case. What kind of businessmen advertise their financial incompetence like that? QED.

Aeolium, if you still think that franchising a club 70 miles from its home is justifiable, we'll just have to agree to disagree :-)

Thanks for your story - your support from a northen lass for Wimbledon is sound - I guess you'll be a temporary Owls fan for the Third Round - Welcome!

[EdgeleyRob]

Midweek forum action.

JPT trophy.
Port Vale 0 Bradford City 2
Coventry City 1 Sheffield United 1 (Cov won 4-1 on pens)

League.
Truro City 0 Dover 3

Champions league.
Chelsea 6 Nordsjaelland 1

and well done Celtic.

[johncorrigan]

and well done Celtic.

Funny old game innit, Rob? They can't get past Arbroath on Saturday in the Scottish Cup, then they push through to the last 16 in Europe. Looked like a great European night at Parkhead with another to come......Man U perhaps?

[BBMmk2]

Glad Chelski are out!!

[John Wright]

I'm going to bore you with the Coventry City FC statement below.

What it doesn't explain is that the facilities at the new-ish CCFC stadium are far superior and bigger than any other League 1 team. Years ago just before we got relegated someone decided we needed a 32,000 seater stadium. Such a stadium costs 50 million quid so the club were never going to be the owners, the stadium needs over 100 staff on match days, and over 100 stewards, sometimes 50 police, the huge car park needs managing, numerous fast food stalls needed, vast interior areas need heating, so that's why the rent was set at 1 million quid a year. OK CCFC are now 2 divisions below, but the running of the stadium on match days now costs just as much even though the crowds are half the size they were.

I'm a Cov fan but I'm with the stadium owners ACL, they should be paid.

The Club owners SISUCAPITAL are listed as a venture capital hedge fund ........ probably don't actually have any money

We are disappointed by ACL’s actions today to issue a statutory demand to Coventry City Football Club rather than, as we had requested, sitting down with us to negotiate a level of rent which the Club can afford and which is in line with the rent paid by other clubs.

For reference, ACL has been charging CCFC an annual rent of £1.28 million, which we understand is the highest in both League One and the Championship.

We understand that the average annual rent paid by League One clubs (excluding CCFC) is less than £170,000 and that the average in the Championship is less than £290,000. All other clubs which rent their stadia get full access to 100% of match day food, beverage and car parking revenues, unlike CCFC.

The Club’s objective in requesting these negotiations with ACL has been only to bring about a state of commercial normality, where CCFC pays the same level of rent and has access to the same type of ancillary revenues as the other football clubs with which it competes. It is unsustainable for CCFC to be put at a severe financial disadvantage to its peers.

While we have been seeking to normalise the rent, we have continued to pay match day costs to ensure that ACL is not left out-of-pocket. These costs amount to over £250,000 per season, much more than the average rent paid by League One clubs.

In addition to defraying ACL’s match day costs, the Club has been subsidising ACL’s general overheads ever since the Sky Blues started playing at the Ricoh Arena, amounting to many millions of pounds over seven years.

The Club remains committed to the city and people of Coventry

[teamsaint]

John ,the events at Cov are followed quite closely down here. Saints fans have a good deal of sympathy with your plight. Our long stints together as rather small fish in Div 1, relative proximity (very easy to get to from down here) financial trouble, and not least the fact that SISU were sniffing around saints for a long time are all contributory factors.
I think there needs to be a sense of realism here. slightly different circumstances, but when Saints were in administration, the new owners bought the assets including of course the stadium. success in L1 meant that we were getting big crowds, and actually needed the 32500 capacity. Last years promotion meant that we are now reaping the financial rewards(the club not the fans!).
Anyway, point is, in administration, the stadium was mortgaged to Aviva.they received a part payment of their mortgage when the club was sold, but crucially built in payments on future success. promotion to the PL brought them another £7m I think. It really shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to structure a deal for Cov where rents rise with success....promotion back to the championship should be well within their capabilities over the next year or two. I happen to rather like the Ricoh, though its not the best location in the world. If Cov ever get their act together and get a winning team, it will be a great atmosphere there!

A deal must get done.The two parties need each other. bit of an odd negotiating tactic by Cov, but there you go.perhaps a trip to wembley in the paint pot will help finances. We had a great run when we won it, very memorable fo a club that had been through bad times.

[cloughie]

John ,the events at Cov are followed quite closely down here. Saints fans have a good deal of sympathy with your plight. Our long stints together as rather small fish in Div 1, relative proximity (very easy to get to from down here) financial trouble, and not least the fact that SISU were sniffing around saints for a long time are all contributory factors.
I think there needs to be a sense of realism here. slightly different circumstances, but when Saints were in administration, the new owners bought the assets including of course the stadium. success in L1 meant that we were getting big crowds, and actually needed the 32500 capacity. Last years promotion meant that we are now reaping the financial rewards(the club not the fans!).
Anyway, point is, in administration, the stadium was mortgaged to Aviva.they received a part payment of their mortgage when the club was sold, but crucially built in payments on future success. promotion to the PL brought them another £7m I think. It really shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to structure a deal for Cov where rents rise with success....promotion back to the championship should be well within their capabilities over the next year or two. I happen to rather like the Ricoh, though its not the best location in the world. If Cov ever get their act together and get a winning team, it will be a great atmosphere there!

A deal must get done.The two parties need each other. bit of an odd negotiating tactic by Cov, but there you go.perhaps a trip to wembley in the paint pot will help finances. We had a great run when we won it, very memorable fo a club that had been through bad times.

...and you've a good manager and have just knocked the Blades from the Paint Pot!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Glad Chelski are out!!

yes but in the UEFA cup thingy along with Newcastle BBM! ..... [careful what yer wish for innit]

[aeolium]

Something topical and possibly of interest to fans of those clubs in financial difficulty.

[EdgeleyRob]

Glad Chelski are out!!

Blimey Bbm,that's harsh,they're a forum team after all.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

yes but in the UEFA cup thingy along with Newcastle BBM! ..... [careful what yer wish for innit]

Well Newcastle beat Chelsea last season.

[EdgeleyRob]

If you don't want to know the results you know what to do.

Poor return,only 5 wins from 20 games played.

Barrow 0 Hereford United 2 (Friday)

St Mirren 1 St Johnstone 1
Cowdenbeath v Partick Thistle postponed
Southampton 1 Reading 0 (Saints pulling well clear now).
Sunderland 1 Chelsea 3
Wigan Athletic 2 QPR 2
Crystal Palace 2 Blackpool 2
Leicester City 2 Barnsley 2
Sheffield Wednesday 2 Bristol City 3
Coventry City 5 Walsall 1
Hartlepool United 0 Stevenage 2
Barnet 1 AFC Wimbledon 1
Bristol Rovers 0 Dagenham & Redbridge 1
Plymouth Argyle 2 York City 0
Port Vale 0 Chesterfield 2
Woking 1 Stockport County 0
Wrexham 6 Nuneaton 1 (Wrexham scoring for fun these days).
Boreham wood 0 Truro City 0
Salisbury City 3 Chelmsford 2
Aberystwyth Town 2 Rhyl 5

[teamsaint]

If you don't want to know the results you know what to do.

Poor return,only 5 wins from 20 games played.

Barrow 0 Hereford United 2 (Friday)

St Mirren 1 St Johnstone 1
Cowdenbeath v Partick Thistle postponed
Southampton 1 Reading 0 (Saints pulling well clear now).
Sunderland 1 Chelsea 3
Wigan Athletic 2 QPR 2
Crystal Palace 2 Blackpool 2
Leicester City 2 Barnsley 2
Sheffield Wednesday 2 Bristol City 3
Coventry City 5 Walsall 1
Hartlepool United 0 Stevenage 2
Barnet 1 AFC Wimbledon 1
Bristol Rovers 0 Dagenham & Redbridge 1
Plymouth Argyle 2 York City 0
Port Vale 0 Chesterfield 2
Woking 1 Stockport County 0
Wrexham 6 Nuneaton 1 (Wrexham scoring for fun these days).
Boreham wood 0 Truro City 0
Salisbury City 3 Chelmsford 2
Aberystwyth Town 2 Rhyl 5

Thanks for the round up, ER.
Yes the championship teams are letting the side down a bit. Palace's result isn't a disaster, but what on earth is going on at Sheffield Wednesday ? that is an awful result.

Sorry to see it was bad day at the office for Stockport. Must be very galling a losing to Woking.