The Round Ball Game

[gurnemanz]

It is worse to have been alive but aged just three and a half in 1966 and therefore with only memories since Mexico 70.

I had the the great pleasure of watching the 1966 final, aged 17, in a very crowded pub in Germany (Baden Baden) during a hitchhiking tour. My friend and I were the only English people there but did not advertise the fact. When the Germans equalised to 2-2 with a minute of normal time to go, chairs were waved in the air. The rest is history. We had a Union Jack on our rucksack and over the next days had no difficulty getting lifts from people keen to point out that the third goal should have been disallowed.

I got my comeuppance four years later when I was again in Germany. I was the only Englishman among Germans watching it in a flat in Nürnberg. The local Frankenwein was being heavily consumed and with 70 minutes played and England 2-0 up and cruising, I was in a blissful state that might have involved some premature gloating. Peter Bonetti was in for the indisposed genius, Gordon Banks, and my hubris was about to punished with his infamous thin-air dive that led to Germany scoring. As Gerd Müller scored the extra-time winner I had sunk so low into my armchair that I was almost on the floor. In my view, this marked the start of a decline from which England have never fully recovered.

[BBMmk2]

We hav'nt had a true football national team since the days of the Charlton brothers, imo! since football players been earning so much money, they have in turn, become primna donnas and in so doing, do'nt behave as a team but as individuals!!

[LHC]

My former boss, recently retired, had little interest in football and had been to only one match in his life. However, that match was the 1966 world cup final!

His brother, who was fanatical about football, had got tickets but broke his leg a few days before the game and was unable to attend, so my boss went instead.

[aeolium]

In my view, this marked the start of a decline from which England have never fully recovered.

But that 1970 England team was imo better in technical ability than the one which won in 1966, but other teams had also improved and it was a much better tournament all round. Just to see that great Brazilian side, surely the best national team ever to grace a football field, was a privilege. I remember staying up to watch one of those games the night before an O-level, and it was worth it.

[JohnSkelton]

We hav'nt had a true football national team since the days of the Charlton brothers, imo! since football players been earning so much money, they have in turn, become primna donnas and in so doing, do'nt behave as a team but as individuals!!

But England played as a team throughout this competition. It was their one real strength. The problem was / is that the individuals aren't good enough. There are plausible explanations for that apart from just being one of those things - they'd include money, for sure (young English players getting so much so soon) but they'd also include the fact that it's easier for a Premier League team to scout than develop young English players (look at the team you support, Newcastle. Their success last season was built around scouting Tiote, Cabaye, Ben Arfa. You sold your one international aspiration England player, Carroll). And one reason for point two would be poor technical coaching of youngsters in England before they get to about 13 / 14. There's been a lot of talk about putting more of the obscene amount of money slopping about the English game into youth development: maybe now with Hodgson / Ray Lewington and people working to them better emphasis on technique rather than getting stuck in and getting a result will at last follow.

Fulham's big idea under Jol is to bring players through the youth system at the club. http://www.fulhamfc.com/Club/Academy/AcademyMain.aspx The captain of their winning youth team is German, the player who got his breakthrough last season, Kerim Frei, has now opted to play for Turkey having been brought up in Switzerland (which was where Fulham signed him from). Youth scouting is almost as cosmopolitan as scouting for the senior squad.

Last season Fulham twice (?) fielded a team without an England qualified player. With Danny Murphy and Andrew Johnson leaving, with Zamora gone last January, and with Steve Sidwell likely to be marginal, there's no current England qualified player first choice for Fulham as the squad stands pre-transfer 'window'.

[aeolium]

There's been a lot of talk about putting more of the obscene amount of money slopping about the English game into youth development

I agree there is a lot of money coming in from billionaires and Sky TV rights, but look at this Premiership club table - how much surplus money is there (apart from Wolves, who have gone down)?:

http://www.channel4.com/news/premier-league-the-alternative-results-table

How likely are such clubs to go for the long-term strategy of youth development, when they need the quick fix of instant results to guarantee either Premiership survival or Euro-qualification, to stave off financial disaster? It needs action by the authorities to put a limit on debt levels - and therefore wage levels - before anything is improved. Compare the much better outcomes in cricket where the national team is benefiting from the contract system and better youth development programmes in the counties, and around the national squad. But of course in cricket the money is all around the national team which finances the counties, whereas in football the top clubs are dominant.

[EdgeleyRob]

Well that was poo wasn't it? I really thought there was more to come from England and feel a bit sorry for Roy Hodgson.

No falling out; no petulance; a good amount of effort and commitment; measured interviews; no nightclub antics; no pouring drink down each others' throats; no wags; no celebrity nonsense; no real cause for sending off; the visit to Auschwitz.....

The reasonable demand is that players do their best. This time I think they did and while the outcome is as disappointing as other QF (and earlier) exits, this one feels better.

I agree with all that Lat,and the Englad players ALL sang the national anthem before the game,a minor detail maybe but I though it made a difference.
We are just not good enough and haven't been for years,probably a mid table type of team but miles away from the top four semi finalists.

There was plenty of this

but not enough of this


Wimbledon wallchart anyone ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

We had a Union Jack on our rucksack and over the next days had no difficulty getting lifts from people keen to point out that the third goal should have been disallowed.

Noone nowadays ever mentions the 4th England goal, which even Geoff Hurst thought should have been disallowed (as it was all over; otherwise the players should still be there on the pitch waiting for the referee's final final whistle).

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the book under review is good on why we lose

i found the Man U trio of Welbeck Rooney and Young to be singularly and collectively toothless and liabilities in terms of possession ....

[Parry1912]

i found the Man U trio of Welbeck Rooney and Young to be singularly and collectively toothless and liabilities in terms of possession ....

I thought Welbeck did OK considering how isolated he was most of the time.

[Northender]

Now that England are out of the tournament, I suppose the BBC will claim victory over ITV for its coverage of the final if, as is very likely, it attracts the very high percentage of viewers it usually gets when the two channels go head to head. But what a waste of airspace to have some 6 hours (if you include all the pre- and post-match waffle) on the country's two most popular channels dedicated to a match that will probably be of interest mainly to (i) Soccer purists, (ii) interested neutrals and (iii) people who have nothing better to do or are just too lazy to change channels or look for something different. Should Italy reach the final, I suppose you could add (iv) embittered England fans thirsting for vicarious revenge.

[EdgeleyRob]

The good news is England are top of their qualifying group for Brazil 2014.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/standings/index.html

[Beef Oven]

The good news is England are top of their qualifying group for Brazil 2014.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/prelimi...ngs/index.html

What's the bad news?

[teamsaint]

What's the bad news?

it starts in september?
lawro will be commentating?
We don't get to play scotland?

[EdgeleyRob]

What's the bad news?

Some of it will be on ITV

More bad news, I'm thinking of resurrecting the jokes thread.