Decline of Modern Languages

[aeolium]

This article shows another side of the problem highlighted by gurnemanz back in August. It is a terrible indictment of higher education that foreign languages are being abandoned at a time when there is probably greater contact between the different peoples of Europe than at any time in history. To learn a foreign language to a proficient level is to gain access to a whole new world of sounds, ideas, ways of thinking; and although translation can to some extent bridge the gap, to read literature in translation - however good the translator - is like the taste of ersatz coffee compared with the real thing.. I am grateful for having had the chance to learn the languages I did, and am currently learning Russian to be able to read the likes of Pushkin, Gogol, Tsetaeva, Akhmatova, Bulgakov etc.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Totally agree, aeolium. I really regret my lack of proficiency in languages - I do my best, but I know that I'll never be fluent enough to read Proust, Eco, Goethe et al in the original. Nor, for that matter, all the books on Music, Arts and Ideas that haven't been translated into English.

[scottycelt]

I often wonder if Americans spoke, say, French or German just how different our foreign language priorities would be in this country?

English (American) being the now widely-spoken language of the world and essential in modern sciences like computing has rendered the incentive to study modern languages in the UK much less than it ought to be.

We often think of that as a huge advantage but it is also something of a curse in so many ways.

[Dave2002]

I also don't know how languages are taught today, but when I was taught French in the 60's we began by learning to decline the verb "to be". What a bizarre idea! The best way to learn French is the way the French learn French, by seeing it used. The way we were taught is completely unnatural and therefore inefficient. If we had been taught better then I am sure we would have learned much more.

Presumably by the "French learn French" you mean young French children learn French, which is not quite the same thing at the ages at which foreign languages are often taught in schools. Learning a language as a child is well known, for developmental reasons, to be a rather different exercise.

Last week I had a conversation with a French person, in English, who was bemoaning the fact that in France many people don't speak English or understand any of it, and in addition that, in his opinion, the teaching of English in French schools concentrated on a didactic approach so that English is not accessible to most students - they are unable to use the language in practical situations. He thought that the evolution of the teaching of French in English schools to an approach with less emphasis on grammar had actually produced benefits. Some English people in France can get by, whereas he said that the converse of similarly educated French people in England was unlikely. That was only one opinion though, but it was interesting to hear.

[Historian]

But many new history teachers around here (and I have to study with them) decided on history as a second choice, because they didn't know what else to pick. Their interest and insight into the workings of the subject is ushually quite limited, and their ability to charm and interest others ...

In my experience, among the distinguishing features of my History teaching colleagues is a deep interest, enthusiasm for and knowledge of their subject. There are many History teachers in the vanguard of new teaching practice and the subject regularly scores highly in quality of teaching surveys. How much weight should be put on the latter is, of course, open to question. So, the situation you describe is by no means universal.

[Historian]

Well history is heading back to the days of date based rote learning.........

Perhaps not. Mr. Gove's proposals for Key Stages 1, 2 and 3 (primary and first two to three years of secondary school) were so excoriated that they were substantially revised. So far so good. However, time will tell what happens to GCSE and A-Level examinations and, hence, teaching.

[teamsaint]

Perhaps not. Mr. Gove's proposals for Key Stages 1, 2 and 3 (primary and first two to three years of secondary school) were so excoriated that they were substantially revised. So far so good. However, time will tell what happens to GCSE and A-Level examinations and, hence, teaching.

well I hope you are right Histo.......keep up the good work !!

[gradus]

It is of course perfectly possible to study languages modern or classical at more or less any age and whilst it might take longer to learn, or to remember what was once learned in our teens, the opportunities to learn are there.
Why not set an example to the young and learn/relearn a new language - there is no shortage of learning opportunities where I live (Suffolk).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It is of course perfectly possible to study languages modern or classical at more or less any age and whilst it might take longer to learn, or to remember what was once learned in our teens, the opportunities to learn are there.
Why not set an example to the young and learn/relearn a new language - there is no shortage of learning opportunities where I live (Suffolk).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I should, perhaps, have said earlier that I have seen some excellent teaching of French in Primary Schools in Bradford. As with most other things, start young enough, with a good teacher
and kids adore learning. "Good teaching" doesn't (as the idiot Gove seems to suppose) have to be boring rote memory-training; and good teachers don't have to be the best practitioners of their subject area(s), "only" good at teaching: I've seen first-rate Musicians, who play like angels and whose knowledge and education is astonishing, but who are less effective in a classroom than a tin of sardines.

[eighthobstruction]

I should, perhaps, have said earlier that I have seen some excellent teaching of French in Primary Schools in Bradford. As with most other things, start young enough, with a good teacher
and kids adore learning. "Good teaching" doesn't (as the idiot Gove seems to suppose) have to be boring rote memory-training; and good teachers don't have to be the best practitioners of their subject area(s), "only" good at teaching: I've seen first-rate Musicians, who play like angels and whose knowledge and education is astonishing, but who are less effective in a classroom than a tin of sardines.

....too true....

[Dave2002]

There are a couple of other quite good ways to learn a foreign language, though more suited to older people.

1. Take a foreign lover, and/or
2. Get a job abroad, and resolve to use the language of that country as a working language.

I suspect neither of these fits in with Mr Gove's hopes for the UK education system.

[Serial_Apologist]

1. Take a foreign lover

Yes, a good way to learn names for different parts of the anatomy, as I found...

[gurnemanz]

There are a couple of other quite good ways to learn a foreign language, though more suited to older people.

1. Take a foreign lover, and/or
2. Get a job abroad, and resolve to use the language of that country as a working language.

I did both those things and did the decent thing and married her - 38 years ago last week. Our two children grew up in England bilingually with me speaking English to them and my wife speaking German (another route to language acquisition and quite effortless). Both are now 30-ish and this language habit prevails to this day.

[Dave2002]

gurnemanz

Congratulations. I'm glad it has worked out.