Twitter and Facebook: a gross mismatch for R3?

[Eudaimonia]

Salymap and DT: I think that's a great idea. This summer, I spoke to a very thoughtful professional musician who said they stopped posting at the old boards because they found the overall tone depressing, uninteresting, and "not for them". If we can just keep being civil to each other here and get more lively music discussion going, there's no reason they (and other quality people) might not come back and start posting again. Let's do it!

If I'd booked the RAH for most of the summer and had about 500,000 tickets to flog, I would know full well that the over 65s and Torygraph wouldn't be much help and that I absolutely must get the interest of young and middle aged people. And I wouldn't be too proud to exploit social media like Twitter and Facebook.

Well, given the record attendance rates, somebody definitely has it covered-- and I doubt it was the 200-odd Twitter followers who made the difference. Have you seen the Facebook page? No real discussion or sense of community whatsoever. If someone put some effort into making it anything more than a one-sided PR repository, it might be worth it-- but as it is, it's not doing anyone a bit of good.

Something which might generate some real interest is to use social media to host regular Q and As with presenters and visiting musicians...posing questions to the audience, and getting a real-time dialogue going might be another way to go. Even tacking on a question at the end of every blog post would be a good way to spur discussion. As for attracting young people, why not get a program going with the music schools where teachers make interacting with the R3 sites part of the lessons. There's a million creative ideas out there and nobody's doing anything with social media besides using it for flogging press releases...why not? Sigh.

(Eudamonia: you could address your queries to Andrew Downs, R3 Interactive Producer, whose was responsible for last year's Proms experiment and subsequent assessment of same. You might get a reply.)

Thanks but no thanks; I'm 100% sure I wouldn't accomplish anything other than to make a complete nuisance of myself. I suppose in the end, they're doing whatever it is they're doing for their own reasons, and taking the time and trouble to explain it to someone who isn't on the payroll-- and doesn't even pay the license fee!-- isn't exactly at the top of anyone's priority list.

It seems to me that the society we live in is predominantly speech and most importanty text based, now that we are moving from everyone haing access to a PC, to everyone owning a smart phone, which is usually a more powerful computer than the PC siitting on your desk.

Funny you should mention it: this morning, I used my smartphone to surreptitiously read this thread to soothe and distract myself in the middle of a stressful business meeting. Cuts both ways, doesn't it.

[Eudaimonia]

This caught my eye:

" Specifically, the detail of the report contains BBC Management's proposal of:

"....a range of activities in which Radio 3 contributes to this requirement, including:
• providing access to on-demand programmes and music
• publishing a regular blog around station themes which can be re-quoted and linked to from elsewhere
• providing specialist content online that allows audience groups to explore their passion and develop their practical skills

Does anyone know what this means? It certainly sounds promising!

[BetweenTheStaves]

I don't really understand why the Trust and R3 management are so fixated on reaching a younger audience now. Don't they realise that young people age and that as they get older develop other musical tastes other than pop and so become 'oldies' like us? I was vaguely interested in classical music when I was in my teens but only for the more 'popular' composers and the 'usual' favourites - apart from some obscure and totally out-of-character obsession with Wagner. Then as I grew older, my classical tastes broadened. Still no interest in opera (other than The Ring). Never even heard of Mahler. Couldn't comprehend a work colleague's obsession with Lieder (he 50 years old, me 23).

'Got' into opera by hearing the closing part of Act 1 of Tosca at 8.30am one morning in a local restaurant that did bacon butties. I was then in my 40's and so it moves on.

And so it always will.

[doversoul1]

I'm waiting to be proved entirely wrong, but…

…has there ever been another era when those charged with making culture (music, reading, plays etc) available have distorted the complexion of that culture so hugely in the interests of attracting numbers in a particular segment of society at all costs…

… and, wait for it …

their enterprise has also been true to that culture, has enhanced it, has honestly added something?

I think Mark sums it up perfectly. (#2)

BetweenTheStaves

I don't really understand why the Trust and R3 management are so fixated on reaching a younger audience now.

I agree with you. When people mention education here, I assume they refer to post-compulsory if not higher education level and not school programmes and family days.

[Eudaimonia]

When people mention education here, I assume they refer to post-compulsory if not higher education level and not school programmes and family days.

It has to start somewhere-- and in my opinion, the earlier the better. As I've said, I don't have any frame of reference for "growing into" classical music as I aged since I got a cracking good start in primary school. People aren't intimidated if they aren't prejudiced that way by society: if I hadn't started the piano at six or seven and the viola in our school orchestra at nine, I doubt my favorite composer at 12 would have been Bartok.

[doversoul1]

I don’t think Radio3 is that somewhere.

[salymap]

In WW2 as a ten year old we had some old 78s of the Tchaikovsky ballets, which were used for exercises,music and movement and what was loosely called'ballet'in my local school. I had musical relatives which helped,but the main step forward was when the Royal Ballet, complete with Margot Fonteyn, visited local cinemas. After the war it didn't take long to find the RAH. We had no piano or instrumental lessons at my school though, I had to find my own way, such as it was.

[Daring Tripod]

Seeing that this thread has turned into a confessional how our love of classical music started, here is my story: My mother actually attended concerts conducted by Mahler when she was young and loved his symphonies. In those days hardly anyone had heard of Mahler in the UK. She used to play the piano very well and my brother played the clarinet. Then came the war and I was evacuated to Cumberland. As luck would have it, the husband of the family where I was lodged loved classical music and after dinner we sat to listen to his big-horned EMG wind up gramophone using wooden needles playing his 78 rpm collection. I still remember listening to Beethoven Op.18 No.4 quartet performed by the Hungarian String quartet (certainly a better performance than on Monday night by the Artemis Quartet!) and that’s how it all started. Alas, I never had the opportunity to learn to play an instrument as in those days the local school had no opportunities and after the War it was work and evening classes. But then the record collection started and has been with me ever since! So, I am by and large self-educated and I owe a lot to the Third Programme when it first appeared.

[Eudaimonia]

I don’t think Radio3 is that somewhere.

I didn't mean it would have to alter the standard programming in any way--quite the contrary: what could be wrong with teachers and students making use of BBC social media for interactive lessons based around regular, serious concerts and programmes? That way, 1) Twitter and Facebook would be put to good use in a demographically-appropriate way, 2) they could increase listening among the young without compromising the integrity of the programming, and 3) fulfill the mandate for "audience building" and being "welcoming and engaging" in one fell swoop. Label the whole project "Club Three" or something catchy like that.

Besides, the more kids are taught to appreciate music now, the less they'll want to listen to dumbed-down condescending pap later. Surely that's something you can appreciate!

[Eudaimonia]

So, I am by and large self-educated and I owe a lot to the Third Programme when it first appeared.

Interesting history, DT! Curious, did you find out the radio schedule ahead of time, or did you just tune in regularly? When I read about some of the lectures you must have heard, I'm green with envy. Would you believe there are a few posted on Youtube? In case you missed it, here's a debate with Bertrand Russell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BWFpBTqSN0&feature=player_detailpage

P.S. I startled a little at the mention of your mother hearing Mahler, as I always think of you in my mind's eye as a young man.

[Daring Tripod]

Euda,

Private questions deserve private answers!
D.T.

[Russ]

Elisabeth Mahoney, the Guardian's radio critic, tweeted this evening asking for 2011 radio highlights. By chance, I happened to be on line at the time (I dabble on twitter somewhat rarely, and try to keep myself focused), and sent her my suggestions on radio drama, and she lapped them all up. Her 'starter list' contenders for inclusion in her eventual review of the year was thereby compiled and finalised in about 10 minutes flat, and whilst the result will be far more catholic than the niche drama area of course, I couldn't see any evidence of anything with musical content being tweeted to her by others.

Russ

[Stillhomewardbound]

Statistics can often be misleading but what we can see quite clearly from the comparison study is that there are those that listen to the output and those that produce the output, and that represents a gulf and a half.

This morning so easily defined that difference. Worthy of discussion it seemed was how people organised their bookshelves and their record collections.

I, for one, don't give a fliegender fokker what people do with their book cases and only an idiot kid producer would.

It's what can only be termed as 'empty content', and it's worse than the nutter that comes and sits to on the upper deck of the bus and show's his can of worms.

[french frank]

What baffles me is the relative number of tweets v. followers:

R2 Tw. 4,031 Fo. 46,587

R3 Tw. 45,502 Fo. 5,674

R4 Tw. 10,964 Fo. 45,726

How much paid time do R3 employees spend online tweeting? Couldn't they be spending that time improving the online content? I do get the impression that behind the scenes is an army of 30-somethings whose job is to bring R3, and its audience, kicking and screaming, into the world of 'young people'. Facebook and Twitter have become, like mobile phones, part of the entertainment business attractive because (like phone-ins for radio stations) they're cheap (cheep?).

The point about 'no musical tweets' is interesting. It suggests that however important, indeed necessary, to people's lives the ubiquitous music is, all that people require is that it should be there - as long as it's mainstream pop.

[ahinton]

Whilst I wonder if Messiaen would have followed stuff on Twitter, I do know that jazzers of the past sometimes used to use fake-books...