Malala yousafzai - modern hero

[jean]

I am quite content to regard the attempted murder of a 14-year old as wrong under any circumstances. And that does not mean just 'wrong within her culture'. As I regard human sacrifice as wrong under any circumstances. That - to me at least - is very clear-cut.

You're not listening to what I'm saying, are you?

I regard it as wrong. In any circumstances. I find it utterly abhorrent. It has no possible justification in any religion or culture.

But at the same time, it is important that I recognise how my expression of that abhorrence will be perceived. And I am naive if I think that American drone attacks (for example) have nothing to do with that perception.

[Pabmusic]

You're not listening to what I'm saying, are you?...

Why be aggressive?

I'm understanding what you're saying all right. I just don't agree in this particular case, which seems to have been a religiously motivated attack that would probably have happened whether America was involved in Pakistan or not.

[jean]

Why be aggressive?

I am sorry you think I was being 'aggressive'. That's not my intention..

I'm understanding what you're saying all right.

It's just that judging by the way you've paraphrased my views, I don't think you do understand what I am saying.

[vinteuil]

The section I find most interesting is this:

'...I want to draw your attention to an extract from the minute written by Sir T.B. Macaulay to British parliament dated 2nd February 1835 about what type of education system is required in Indian sub-continent to replace the Muslim education system. He stated

“We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern, -- a class of persons Indian in blood and color, but English in tastes, in opinions, in morals and in intellect."...'.

The Macaulay * Minute on Indian Education is a glorious example of the egregious suffisance that obtained among some of our ruling classes in the 1830s -

https://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00generallinks/macaulay/txt_minute_education_1835.html

Intriguing to think which of our current pronouncements on world affairs, which now seem so self-evident, might appear in a couple of hundred years to be woefully wide of the mark...


[ * "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything" - William Lamb, Viscount Melbourne [1779-1848], in Earl Cowper's Preface to Lord Melbourne's Papers, 1889. ]

[jean]

From your link to Macaulay's opinings:

"...I have no knowledge of either Sanscrit or Arabic. But I have done what I could to form a correct estimate of their value. I have read translations of the most celebrated Arabic and Sanscrit works. I have conversed, both here and at home, with men distinguished by their proficiency in the Eastern tongues. I am quite ready to take the oriental learning at the valuation of the orientalists themselves. I have never found one among them who could deny that a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia. The intrinsic superiority of the Western literature is indeed fully admitted by those members of the committee who support the oriental plan of education.

It will hardly be disputed, I suppose, that the department of literature in which the Eastern writers stand highest is poetry. And I certainly never met with any orientalist who ventured to maintain that the Arabic and Sanscrit poetry could be compared to that of the great European nations..."

Unbelievable!

However, lest I be accused of an unacceptable degree of anti-European bias, I add:

the discovery of the genetic relationship of the whole family of Indo-European languages is often attributed to Sir William Jones, a British judge in India who in a 1786 lecture (published 1788) observed that

"The Sanskrit language, whatever be its antiquity, is of a wonderful structure; more perfect than the Greek, more copious than the Latin, and more exquisitely refined than either, yet bearing to both of them a stronger affinity, both in the roots of verbs and the forms of grammar, than could possibly have been produced by accident; so strong indeed, that no philologer could examine them all three, without believing them to have sprung from some common source, which, perhaps, no longer exists."

[Mr Pee]

I just don't agree in this particular case, which seems to have been a religiously motivated attack that would probably have happened whether America was involved in Pakistan or not.

Of course. These sort of atrocities were happening way before America got involved. They've been happening for centuries. It is laughable that people attempt to portray every evil in the world as somehow being the fault of the USA.

I mean, really- "The Great Satan". It's pathetic, it really is.

(And by the way, Amateur, as I'm sure I've mentioned before, I do not read the Daily Mail.)

[scottycelt]

Of course. These sort of atrocities were happening way before America got involved. They've been happening for centuries. It is laughable that people attempt to portray every evil in the world as somehow being the fault of the USA.

I mean, really- "The Great Satan". It's pathetic, it really is.

(And by the way, Amateur, as I'm sure I've mentioned before, I do not read the Daily Mail.)

Indeed ... and it is because of equally barbaric practices affecting the rest of the world that not only American forces but thousands from many other countries entered the region in the first place, unanimously sanctioned by the Security Council of the UN. (How many more times must this be stressed?)

One might as easily blame Chamberlain for starting WW2 by finally and reluctantly being forced to declare war on Hitler...

[Pabmusic]

Here's a recent case from a (progressive) Muslim country that underlines, to me at least, that dark-age laws that come from a holy book are incompatible with the 21st century. I've been trying to figure out how the USA can be blamed for this, but I'm not creative enough:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/18/dubai-woman-raped-jailed-extramarital-sex/2554045/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448

[jayne lee wilson]

Truly Excellent piece from Mohammed Hanif...

http://guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/18/letter-taliban-leader-malala-yousafzai-girls

I wish I could have trained as fighter pilot in MY twenties...
(Desirous looks at the microlights sailing over the garden every summer's day...)

[scottycelt]

Here's a recent case from a (progressive) Muslim country that underlines, to me at least, that dark-age laws that come from a holy book are incompatible with the 21st century.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/18/dubai-woman-raped-jailed-extramarital-sex/2554045/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448

I suppose it all depends on the particular Holy Book, and/or our selective interpretations, Pab.

I agree that 'Love Thy Neighbour As Thyself' seems to have proved pretty much incompatible with societies of every century.

However, the problem is not so much with some of these 'dark-age laws' but that most of humanity has never really bothered to observe them in the first place. Let's face it, it's much more fun being selfish and grabbing as much as we can in order to feel superior to our neighbours.

So it could be argued we are all 'to blame' ... apart from atheists, of course.

[Pabmusic]

I suppose it all depends on the particular Holy Book, and/or our selective interpretations, Pab...So it could be argued we are all 'to blame' ... apart from atheists, of course.

Nice to speak again, Scotty.

I was of course referring to sharia law and the whole apostasy, blasphemy, honour killings, ill-treatment of women thing.

I wouldn't argue that we're all to blame, though. Individually and as groups we have to accept blame where it's merited, but the reasons for the blame will vary from one instance to another. However, having a holy book that absolves one from blame is (I suspect - I have no proof) a very handy thing.

Christianity is no longer in the same league (unless you are killing children for witchcraft, or gays for homosexuality, or blowing up abortion clinics) and I certainly don't think your average Christian in the UK is anything but very decent. As is your average Muslim, Hindu, Sikh or Bhuddist in the UK. Atheists too.

[amateur51]

Of course. These sort of atrocities were happening way before America got involved. They've been happening for centuries. It is laughable that people attempt to portray every evil in the world as somehow being the fault of the USA.

I mean, really- "The Great Satan". It's pathetic, it really is.

(And by the way, Amateur, as I'm sure I've mentioned before, I do not read the Daily Mail.)

Oh I hadn't realised, Mr Pee. Do you perhaps write for it?

[amateur51]

Indeed ... and it is because of equally barbaric practices affecting the rest of the world that not only American forces but thousands from many other countries entered the region in the first place, unanimously sanctioned by the Security Council of the UN. (How many more times must this be stressed?)

One might as easily blame Chamberlain for starting WW2 by finally and reluctantly being forced to declare war on Hitler...

As so often scotty, I suggest that you have to wake up & smell the coffee - what you are arguing is irrelevant to what scores of millions of people in the world believe. That is what needs dealing with. And America has only itself to blame after the disgraceful invasion of Iraq, with Tony Blair's deceitful connivance.

[Mr Pee]

As so often scotty, I suggest that you have to wake up & smell the coffee - what you are arguing is irrelevant to what scores of millions of people in the world believe. That is what needs dealing with. And America has only itself to blame after the disgraceful invasion of Iraq, with Tony Blair's deceitful connivance.

Ah, so the UN Security Council is "irrelevant", is it? Does everything become "irrelevant" just because some people don't agree with it? That would cover just about everything you care to mention.

And as for this knee-jerk blaming of America, you really need to come up with something more original. And intelligent.

[jean]

From the Taliban letter to Malala:

"...all the nations are not equal [at the UN], only five wicked states have the veto power and rest of them are powerless..."

Remove the word wicked, which is debatable, and you can't really say this is not the case, can you?