The Ashes 2013

[Pabmusic]

Mercia, there are only two teams who compete for the Ashes. Either England or Australia holds them at any one time (though in reality the Ashes - of a bail from the first 'official' England-vs-Australia game - are kept permanently at Lord's). England will hold them till Australia can wrest them away. There's no other trophy (though nowadays there's probably plenty of money as well). There are similar arrangements where just the same two teams compete each year - the Calcutta Cup, the University Boat Race.

Think of it as school houses competing for the house trophy.

[Sir Velo]

thank you for your patience and understanding - while I'm here, what is the point of going ahead with the fifth test ?

Money! I can't see Surrey CC happily giving up the coffers on this one, or Sky or Channel Five happily cancelling the match.

Test series have always had "dead rubbers". All test matches, even where a series is decided, count towards the ICC test rankings. If England can win again this will assist in reclaiming the ICC world ranking no.1 spot from the South Africans.

[mercia]

An urn.

an urn. But not the urn. Because that is in retention. Awaiting a proper claim. You see, I do understand.

[aeolium]

Well, the pundits like me who advocated replacing Bresnan (or Broad!) with Onions were proved spectacularly wrong. Broad is such a frustrating player as his bowling can look innocuous for matches on end and then he turns on a quite devastating performance. There still isn't a massive difference between the two sides - both of them have underperforming top batting orders - but as several commentators said, England handled the pressure situations better (e.g. when they were 49 for 3 in the second innings, and again when Bell and Prior were out quickly yesterday). If Michael Hussey had not retired and been available for Australia the overall scoreline might have been different as he would have been ideal as a 'stayer' in the run chase, and at various other tight situations in the series.

I wonder if England will now rest Anderson, who looked jaded in this test and at Manchester, and bring back Finn or give Tremlett a go. England still have problems with their batting. Personally I think Root would be better in the middle of the order with a specialist opener like Compton or Carberry coming back. However hard Bairstow is trying he does not look right technically and does not look as if he will make a big score.

[amateur51]

Well, if Ams said so....

We've won the series, but not The Ashes.

The Ashes were won in 2009, and have not been relinquished since - only retained (q.v.).

I wrote that England has won the Ashes series which is correct.

[eighthobstruction]

I do not know enough about the alternative players, but Bairstow lacks the technique I think....do not feel he has the x factor, and the Winter Series will show this I think....He is not 'able' ref the number of places he can score shots safely....

[amateur51]

Well, the pundits like me who advocated replacing Bresnan (or Broad!) with Onions were proved spectacularly wrong. Broad is such a frustrating player as his bowling can look innocuous for matches on end and then he turns on a quite devastating performance. There still isn't a massive difference between the two sides - both of them have underperforming top batting orders - but as several commentators said, England handled the pressure situations better (e.g. when they were 49 for 3 in the second innings, and again when Bell and Prior were out quickly yesterday). If Michael Hussey had not retired and been available for Australia the overall scoreline might have been different as he would have been ideal as a 'stayer' in the run chase, and at various other tight situations in the series.

I wonder if England will now rest Anderson, who looked jaded in this test and at Manchester, and bring back Finn or give Tremlett a go. England still have problems with their batting. Personally I think Root would be better in the middle of the order with a specialist opener like Compton or Carberry coming back. However hard Bairstow is trying he does not look right technically and does not look as if he will make a big score.

An excellent summary again, aeolium - many thanks

I agree with you about Root. I think that Compton has not had a brilliant Summer and he'd feel multiply aggrieved if he was brought back for the Oval Test, then to fail and then not go to Australia. There again he'd feel aggrieved if he wasn't offered that chance - oh dear.

And what to do about Pietersen?

It looks as so the wheels have fallen off Panesar's international career, at least for the time being, as apparently Sussex are in the middle of trying to get rid of his him. Does England need two spinners at the Oval at the end of a hot dry summer in a series which is already won?

Not as easy as it looks this team selection business.

And what to do about Prior? Sir Geoffrey's not happy.

[eighthobstruction]

Players under Central Contract do not seem to be getting Match Practise + experience of long game....

[aeolium]

It looks as so the wheels have fallen off Panesar's international career, at least for the time being, as apparently Sussex are in the middle of trying to get rid of his him. Does England need two spinners at the Oval at the end of a hot dry summer in a series which is already won?

I think Panesar's international career is over. Flower is not very tolerant of those off-field escapades, particularly when combined with Panesar's sloppy fielding (apparently he has taken to stopping the ball with his foot and lobbing it in underarm, a la club cricketer). Well as Panesar bowled last winter, Flower will probably be looking at a younger generation of spinners. I hope Kerrigan goes to Australia. He has been bowling well for several seasons now at Lancashire. As for opening batsmen, I'd like to see Carberry go on the tour rather than Compton who is too much of a front-foot player for the faster pitches and faster bowlers Oz has. Bairstow could still go as a sub and potential replacement wicket-keeper if anything happens to Prior.

[Sir Velo]

an urn. But not the urn.

No, you have to urn it.

[amateur51]

Fifth and final Ashes Test of the 2013 series at London's Oval today until Sunday. Weather is good, and likely to stay this way. Australia won the toss & chose to bat.

A fascinating day so far, the advantage swinging from one side to the other, a bit like the way Anderson's bowling at the moment

Australia currently on 158-3, Clarke out for 7, Watson still there on 104 off 124 balls. Two wickets to Anderson

[anotherbob]

A fascinating day so far,

Indeed; however Sod's law decrees that as soon as I tune in to TMS I find Oofy Prosser (Blofeld) and Dave Podmore (Vaughan) together and I am reduced to following the match on BBC text only till at least one of them departs.

[amateur51]

Indeed; however Sod's law decrees that as soon as I tune in to TMS I find Oofy Prosser (Blofeld) and Dave Podmore (Vaughan) together and I am reduced to following the match on BBC text only till at least one of them departs.

Ed Smith has been excellent, particularly in the absence of Simon Mann.

Blowers' competence has been limited today and if he winds you up, you'll have hated today's stints. He just makes me laugh. Tuffers has been good too. Shane Watson and Sir Geoffrey have tried to end Simon Kerrigan's Test career just as it has started, poor lad

Oooer Watson's just been caught for 176, a very entertaining innings by all accounts. Siddle is in as night watchman with Australia 289-4, so a good but not a great start.

[gradus]

Kerrigan and Woake's inclusion was evidently very last minute as the score sheets accompanying the programme showed Tremlett and Bairstow as playing.
Lovely day out for yours truly, 60 years since I first went to an Oval test match for the same fixture and oddly enough in exactly the same part of the ground.
Cracker of an innings from Watson.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

CAVE! CAVE! the Controller is on TMS chatting with Aggers NOW ...same old stuff innit?