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  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 37820

    Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View Post
    Thank goodness for music!
    You could even thank music for goodness, to an extent.

    Comment

    • teamsaint
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 25226

      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
      You could even thank music for goodness, to an extent.
      I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

      I am not a number, I am a free man.

      Comment

      • vinteuil
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 12937

        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
        You could even thank music for goodness, to an extent.
        ... tho' sadly there are too many counter-examples which demonstrate that a love of music does not correlate with, still less cause, goodness.

        Germany in the period 1933 - 1945....

        Comment

        • ahinton
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 16123

          Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
          ... tho' sadly there are too many counter-examples which demonstrate that a love of music does not correlate with, still less cause, goodness.

          Germany in the period 1933 - 1945....
          But do you think that, in this particular example, there was a genuine or conveniently feigned "love of music"?

          Comment

          • richardfinegold
            Full Member
            • Sep 2012
            • 7737

            Originally posted by ahinton View Post
            But do you think that, in this particular example, there was a genuine or conveniently feigned "love of music"?
            Reinhard Heydrich was reportedly an excellent Violinist. The depiction of a Nazi in Schindlers List stopping in the middle of a massacre to play a work by Bach is apparently based on many actual historical incidents. There were many Nazis who felt that 'German Culture' was in danger of contamination by 'non German (Aryan) elements'. Love of music unfortunately does not equal love of humanity

            Comment

            • ahinton
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 16123

              Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
              Reinhard Heydrich was reportedly an excellent Violinist. The depiction of a Nazi in Schindlers List stopping in the middle of a massacre to play a work by Bach is apparently based on many actual historical incidents. There were many Nazis who felt that 'German Culture' was in danger of contamination by 'non German (Aryan) elements'. Love of music unfortunately does not equal love of humanity
              No, indeed it doesn't but was not Heydrich something of an exception in this? I don't think tht there's much relaible evidence that Hitler, Goering, Goebbels and other Nazi head honchos really cared deeply about any music, even German music. OK, Wagner's conduct and his music were themseoves often very much at odds, but the hero-worship of Wagner by the Nazis was based, I suspect, on a slender understanding of what his music was about.

              Comment

              • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                Gone fishin'
                • Sep 2011
                • 30163

                Originally posted by ahinton View Post
                No, indeed it doesn't but was not Heydrich something of an exception in this? I don't think tht there's much relaible evidence that Hitler, Goering, Goebbels and other Nazi head honchos really cared deeply about any music, even German music. OK, Wagner's conduct and his music were themseoves often very much at odds, but the hero-worship of Wagner by the Nazis was based, I suspect, on a slender understanding of what his music was about.
                Indeed - but many decent "Music-lovers" base their love on such (lack of) understanding. And they (as, indeed, Stalin) "really cared deeply" about how they could use Music - which, for Hitler's crippled morality, was the closest they could get to Love and how they understood Love "worked".

                It wasn't just Wagner - the Nazis also appropriated Bruckner (Haas, Orel, and Nowak all worked for the International Bruckner Society under the Nazi regime) and all the other Bs.

                Music is neutral - it doesn't "express" spiritual states; it evokes and encourages them. It's a sickeningly salutary thought that the poisonous psyche of many Nazis received sustenance and succour from the Ode to Joy.
                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                Comment

                • ahinton
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 16123

                  Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                  Indeed - but many decent "Music-lovers" base their love on such (lack of) understanding. And they (as, indeed, Stalin) "really cared deeply" about how they could use Music - which, for Hitler's crippled morality, was the closest they could get to Love and how they understood Love "worked".

                  It wasn't just Wagner - the Nazis also appropriated Bruckner (Haas, Orel, and Nowak all worked for the International Bruckner Society under the Nazi regime) and all the other Bs.

                  Music is neutral - it doesn't "express" spiritual states; it evokes and encourages them. It's a sickeningly salutary thought that the poisonous psyche of many Nazis received sustenance and succour from the Ode to Joy.
                  I could not agree more with what you express here; very many thanks! The irony with Bruckner was, of course, that he was not German but, like so much else with that lot, it was convenient to overlook such matters...
                  Last edited by ahinton; 04-09-16, 21:59.

                  Comment

                  • Petrushka
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 12309

                    At the risk of derailing this thread further, one of the supreme ironies in all musical history must be when Hitler, as a down and out in Vienna, attended a performance at the Vienna State Opera conducted by Gustav Mahler. I'm not at home at present so can't double check the date but I think, from memory, it was in May 1908.

                    It suits our purpose to deny Hitler any sense of culture. This book is an eye-opener: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitler-Powe.../dp/1585673455
                    "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                    Comment

                    • EdgeleyRob
                      Guest
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 12180

                      Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
                      It's no exaggeration--I've seen many Patients with Heart Failure whose life expectancy would have been 1 year in the early 1980s go on for more than 20 years...the advances in Oncology and Transplant Medicine get more headlines and have been significant but it's Heart Failure where the biggest improvements in longevity have been made.
                      So keep practicing that Alkan
                      That's very reassuring Richard,thanks again

                      Comment

                      • EdgeleyRob
                        Guest
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 12180

                        Originally posted by antongould View Post
                        You keep doing everything right Rob .... Retirement is IMVVHO a thing of wonder and will give County time to get back where they belong .....
                        Thanks Anton,sorry I missed this post earlier.

                        Comment

                        • EdgeleyRob
                          Guest
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 12180

                          Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View Post
                          Thank goodness for music!
                          Yes indeed BBM,It's been my saviour many times.

                          Comment

                          • BBMmk2
                            Late Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 20908

                            3rd helping of chemotherapy done this morning. Also today had an infusion done to strengthen my bones. Not all that long session really but still quite tiring. came home hand caught up with Rattles's Mahler symphony no.7 Prom!! :)
                            Don’t cry for me
                            I go where music was born

                            J S Bach 1685-1750

                            Comment

                            • Serial_Apologist
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 37820

                              Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View Post
                              3rd helping of chemotherapy done this morning. Also today had an infusion done to strengthen my bones. Not all that long session really but still quite tiring. came home hand caught up with Rattles's Mahler symphony no.7 Prom!! :)
                              You're bearing up amazingly well, given the circs, BBM.

                              Comment

                              • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                                Gone fishin'
                                • Sep 2011
                                • 30163

                                Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                                You're bearing up amazingly well, given the circs, BBM.
                                Many hours of happy listening as the drugs do their stuff, Bbm.
                                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                                Comment

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