Absent Friends & Missing Persons

[ahinton]

A pity.

Indeed so.

[gradus]

I don't enjoy "mixing it" with fellow posters whenever arguments take on a personal character. This forum has as one of its contributers' commonest complaints the dilution of Radio 3 from having once been an emblem of constructive discussion and beacon of authority. What does sadden me is that it often turns out to be the people who bring the most stimulating and searching ideas to the forum as a counter to such slippage in standards - whether it be in discussing films, novels, poetry, music or politics - who feel most compelled to leave.

I agree. The widest range of views makes for the most interesting discussions.

[gurnemanz]

I have received a personal communication from Mr Barrett in which he lays out his reasons for withdrawing from this Forum, having had 2 threads he initiated closed in quick succession. I will not quote his remarks re recent moderation decisions but they basically concur with my own impression.

I can understand those reasons and will miss his contributions. I have one of his CDs, which I probably would not have bought without being a member of this board. Great to have one's horizons broadened. The mingling on here of expert practitioners and enthusiastic amateurs like me is a constant source of insight, enlightenment (and entertainment) for me, so you are stuck with me for the foreseeable.

[Dave2002]

I have received a personal communication from Mr Barrett in which he lays out his reasons for withdrawing from this Forum, having had 2 threads he initiated closed in quick succession. I will not quote his remarks re recent moderation decisions but they basically concur with my own impression.

I am sure that RB had his own reasons to withdraw. I hope that perhaps in the fullness of time he will return, but if he doesn't please pass on my regards.

He - and one other - were instrumental in pushing me further into composing, exploring synthesisers and also using DAWs. Occasionally I had disagreements - but it was because of the inputs from these two that I have explored avenues of music and technology which I hadn't experienced or thought of before.

Oh - I almost forgot - RB was also helpful in pointing me in the direction of some recorder players whose work I also find interesting.

For all the things mentioned above I am very thankful. I'll repeat - please pass on my best wishes.

[eighthobstruction]

I agree. The widest range of views makes for the most interesting discussions.

....i agree too

[Mario]

Since when have moderators needed to be moderated? And by whom? The moderatees (is there such a word?)? And why? Because they don’t like the outcome? When did this all start? You join a club, you abide by the rules, no? You want to change the rules, apply to be a moderator, no? Or leave, yes?

Ten questions!

Can we please be grateful that such a forum even exists? Run by individuals for no apparent reward, financial or otherwise, they don’t ask for any contribution, yes? It’s free to join, yes? In a world where everything you get involved in, whatever service is offered, cash down the line is involved and expected, isn’t this an innovative way to run a forum of like-minded people, by like-minded people, for like-minded people? Wouldn’t it be a disaster if they suddenly say, “Enough! You do it!”?

Five more questions!

Personally, I will never stop missing Roehre who was similarly chased off, and whose contributions had none of those see-how-clever-I-am-and-how-much-I-know undertones, not written in different fonts, peppered … with …… a ……… million ……… ellipses …………!

I am not preaching here (how dare I), but we should all be careful that we don’t kill the goose, etc.

“Don’t make tragedies of trifles,
Don’t shoot butterflies with rifles
- Laugh it off!”

Mario

[DracoM]

Thx for that.

[Quarky]

Personally, I will never stop missing Roehre who was similarly chased off, and whose contributions had none of those see-how-clever-I-am-and-how-much-I-know undertones, not written in different fonts, peppered … with …… a ……… million ……… ellipses …………!

I am not preaching here (how dare I), but we should all be careful that we don’t kill the goose, etc.

“Don’t make tragedies of trifles,
Don’t shoot butterflies with rifles
- Laugh it off!”

Mario

Yes, it's a great shame when when most talented forumites are pushed out, or decide to leave of their own free will. Personally, I would be prepared to put up with the more abrasive threads - but then , I rarely read them.....

[Bryn]

Yes, it's a great shame when when most talented forumites are pushed out, or decide to leave of their own free will. Personally, I would be prepared to put up with the more abrasive threads - but then , I rarely read them.....

Well put.

[BBMmk2]

Well put.

Thirded!

[french frank]

I think, and Historian alluded to this, the root cause was not the matter of abrasive threads or 'unwelcome' subjects. Others chose to leave without knowing the background. If they choose to do so, while admitting they they might have 'missed something', that is their choice.

But, to wind back:

This forum was set up as a substitute for the BBC forum, which itself went through turbulent times. At one time the moderation was based on members being allowed to discuss only what the BBC dictated and everything else was removed. As a result many members decamped and joined a hastily launched alternative: r3ok, which operated as a kind of cooperative. It had elected moderators which from what I could see were hardly even needed as there were very few of the divergent views which resulted in the well-known forum phenomena of 'spats', or trolling (though I could name four who for one reason or another were deemed undesirable and were ejected). Moderators were seldom called on to 'moderate'.

Those of us who chose to stay on the BBC boards rather than join r3ok and make a fuss were eventually rewarded with new BBC messageboards which were more congenial. This forum was only set up when the BBC ditched all their messageboards. FoR3 enquired whether members would be interested in an alternative, set up by us. The suggestion was welcomed and we had a fortnight to set up the new forum on the same pattern as the BBC one (not an accident - I copied it), and post the address on the BBC forum before it closed.

Unlike r3ok, this was not offered to members as a cooperative: it was set up by a private group on their own website and it operated like the BBC forum as a fully moderated board.

The forum continues because Mark Sealey, co-founder of FoR3, wants the website to remain; as long as it does the forum has a home on the FoR3 website.

As to the suppression of any topics: considering the original purpose of the forum, I do sigh when I see the many posts on the 'Rock, pop, fusion etc' thread, but people are allowed to post there; I sigh at the 'Current Favourite Jokes' thread, which on the sole time I visited seemed like a men's locker room, but people are allowed to post there; and, yes, I sigh when the topic of Marxism comes up again, but people are allowed to express their views. I could name others. Like most other boards we have introduced a ban on outright political subjects, and a poll of members rejected a member request for a Religion and Ethics board. So, like many before us, we banned Religion and Politics.

We have House Rules and if they are found too restrictive, people are under no compulsion to continue their membership. I have been in touch with one of the members involved in the current matter. We have exchanged views and, I think are coming to an understanding. Other members who have expressed discontent have contacted the moderators privately. That is the preferred way for disputes to be settled.

[Bryn]

The Radio 3 Forum, which we have run for the past 7 years as a replacement for the BBC Messageboards, is now being handed over to the Radio 3 listeners who join to discuss, inter alia, Radio 3. It will no longer be the responsibility of Friends of Radio 3.

from http://www.for3.org/index.php

A somewhat different picture than that presented recently by Frenchie, I think. Not so much "handed over to the Radio 3 listeners who join to discuss" as to those putting themselves forward to take up the role formerly held by the Freinds of Radio3 administrators. I would suggest that the formal Freinds of Radio 3 statement implied a rather wider system of management and control. The picture of moderation at R3OK, I also find at variance with its actual operation. A number of former contributors to that forum had many of their posts removed, and a few had their membership suspended and/or withdrawn by the elected moderators. IIRC, the same fate befell them on this Radio 3 Forum, though not, of course, by elected moderators. For what it is worth, I supported those moderation decisions by both forum's moderators. One of those whose membership of both fora was withdrawn has since rejoined this Forum and continues to make regular valuable contributions while avoiding the type of comment which led to their suspension. No names. No pack drill.

[french frank]

from http://www.for3.org/index.php

A somewhat different picture than that presented recently by Frenchie, I think.

Yes, it does perhaps suggest a different model. However the moderators - more correctly Hosts - did discuss extensively at the time how this might be achieved to the satisfaction of users and FoR3, who were still stuck with the forum on their website. I was in no doubt that the best solution for us was for someone to come forward and plan how to remove the forum on to another server which they would then be responsible for paying for. Nothing came from that so little changed.

The picture of moderation at R3OK, I also find at variance with its actual operation.

Having joined only to provide a single piece of information and then retire, I only saw what was visible. However, I did get the impression that many on r3ok regarded "TOP" as generally stroppier and that seemed to be the reason why most of it members chose not to join us even after r3ok folded. I think I detected a real antipathy in some quarters - you may know more.

I know of what you speak. It was my view that members should be treated here on the basis of their contributions here, not on the basis of their contributions elsewhere. You are correct: the other three were ejected from here too. Your phrase 'suspended' seems to be merely terminological. I know of one who complained that his suspension was never lifted.

[Bryn]

I used "suspension" since I was no party to the decisions and was uncertain as to whether some had their membership terminated or temporarily withdrawn. No other implication was intended.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Other members who have expressed discontent have contacted the moderators privately. That is the preferred way for disputes to be settled.

I can confirm this. Megaphone diplomacy doesn't work. We receive many PMs expressing frustrations on the forum, and most of them are settled amicably.