Zimerman walks off because "..You Tube is destroying Music"

[ahinton]

OK, there are abuses. However, YouTube allows the public to hear performances which, in many cases, are not otherwise readily available. Consequently, it can (as in my case) create an interest in a performer or a composition which will lead to a sale of product which would not otherwise take place. While it is indeed possible to find instances where a performance may have 50,000 hits with very few follow up sales, one has to ask oneself how many actual sales would have been registered anyway? Probably very few. Many of the hits are made just out of curiosity, as happens here on this forum, for instance, where a member posts a link. Indeed, if member x posts a link to a performance of Brahms 3rd symphony which I watch without subsequently purchasing,has the industry really lost a sale? I defy anyone to say that he or she would have bought that record had they not seen it on YouTube.

One of the reasons for this, particularly for classical music aficionados is that the sound quality on YouTube is not comparable to CD or tbe best downloads. Therefore, a very small minority will be content with YouTube. Those that are, probably would not have the means to make a physical purchase anyway. If my appetite for a work is kindled by YouTube this will invariably lead to a purchase of a CD or download. The chances are this would not happen but for the audition on YouTube.

If you want to follow the anti YouTube lobby's argument to its logical conclusion, you might as well say that any broadcast of a piece of music or televising of a concert is a bad thing. After all, there is little to stop the individual from making a recording for their own use. I'm old enough to remember the "Home Taping is Killing Music" furore whipped up by the music industry back in the day. Still seems to be here.

Having experienced the effects of YouTube from all sides of the fence, I can confirm that, when people upload entire CDs there, it does affect sales of them adversely; for all the encouragement that it gives to the odd few people to go and buy what they've just downloaded and listened to there, the majority of downloaders treat what they've downloaded as free in the sense of exonerating them from the need to spend money on purchasing the recording. Likewise, if the record companies' sales are adversely affected by such usage and the composer/s represented on the recordings remain in copyright, the royalties generated for those composers deplete.

I am emphatically not anti-YouTube any more than I'm anti-IMSLP; each can and indeed do provide an invaluable service along the lines that you yourself identify. There is a downside, however, in the case of whole CDs of copyright material being made available for free there. I wish that YouTube ad a policy like that of Naxos which also offers copyright material for free by similar means but makes returns to MCPS/PRS and equivalent organisations so that the copyright holders are not obviously disadvantaged; YouTube is a massive organisation and it really ought to adopt such a policy in everyone's interests. "Fair use" policy also exists anyway and I for one am all in favour of extracts from tracks being uploaded for free download because these can and do affect sales positively.

[french frank]

"Jasper Hope, chief operating officer at London's Royal Albert Hall, said filming at live events was not a problem - as long as it did not disturb the artist or the audience".

Disturbing and at odds with what he can read on the back of any Proms ticket.

Also:

"Cameras & Electronics

Cameras and audio and video equipment are not allowed. Please ensure that all mobile phones, pagers or alarms are switched off before entering the auditorium."

http://www.royalalberthall.com/visit/what-to-expect/default.aspx

So, presumably Jasper Hope, chief operating officer at London's Royal Albert Hall, made it clear that he wasn't including live concerts at London's Royal Albert Hall in that comment?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"Jasper Hope, chief operating officer at London's Royal Albert Hall, said filming at live events was not a problem - as long as it did not disturb the artist or the audience".

Well that says it all. We all know how utterly incompetent the RAH management is in dealing with selfish behaviour at concerts.

[Sir Velo]

No one as yet has commented on the fact that Zimerman (and other performers) is implicitly happy to be party to inflated London concert ticket prices all of which proceeds go to line the pockets of artists and administrators. Like most public performers, they are happy to be the beneficiaries of technology but unwilling to accept anything not on their terms. Sorry; no sympathy for the petulant artist from this (former) fan.

[amateur51]

No one as yet has commented on the fact that Zimerman (and other performers) is implicitly happy to be party to inflated London concert ticket prices all of which proceeds go to line the pockets of artists and administrators. Like most public performers, they are happy to be the beneficiaries of technology but unwilling to accept anything not on their terms. Sorry; no sympathy for the petulant artist from this (former) fan.

You've lost me there, Sir Velo - if/when Zimerman comes to the RFH I can see him for about £10 - £15, scarcely an inflated price for such a magnificent musician, surely

[teamsaint]

You've lost me there, Sir Velo - if/when Zimerman comes to the RFH I can see him for about £10 - £15, scarcely an inflated price for such a magnificent musician, surely

I had no idea there were such reasonably priced tix up there on posh london.


I may fill my thermos and pop up the M3
Thanks Ams.
Imagine how good it will be when it is the People's Festival Hall !!

[Nick Armstrong]

I had no idea there were such reasonably priced tix up there on posh london.


I may fill my thermos and pop up the M3
Thanks Ams.
Imagine how good it will be when it is the People's Festival Hall !!

I remember one Sunday going to Upton Park in the afternoon and the RFH in the evening to hear the Dresden Staatskapelle - (Haitink in Bruckner 3)...

Football ticket cost just over twice as much as the RFH ticket.

The football match was cr*p. The concert was incredible.

Serves me right for going to Upton Park, you'll tell me.

But it just shows you!

[amateur51]

I had no idea there were such reasonably priced tix up there on posh london.


I may fill my thermos and pop up the M3
Thanks Ams.
Imagine how good it will be when it is the People's Festival Hall !!

The South Bank Centre, where Royal Festival Hall, Queen Elizabeth Hall and Purcell room are, has always been good value, teams. Those seats are way up top and at the back, mind but with my dodgy ears that's no disadavantage

[amateur51]

I remember one Sunday going to Upton Park in the afternoon and the RFH in the evening to hear the Dresden Staatskapelle - (Haitink in Bruckner 3)...

Football ticket cost just over twice as much as the RFH ticket.

The football match was cr*p. The concert was incredible.

Serves me right for going to Upton Park, you'll tell me.

But it just shows you!

Nice examples, Caliban

[teamsaint]

The South Bank Centre, where Royal Festival Hall, Queen Elizabeth Hall and Purcell room are, has always been good value, teams. Those seats are way up top and at the back, mind but with my dodgy ears that's no disadavantage

cheap seats are no barrier to my enjoyment.

I have only been to the SBC once, spent new years eve up there at a " Bellowhead Spectacular " a couple of years ago.
Quite , quite brilliant.
Culture shock on coming out of the centre at 2 AM. Like something from an apocalypse movie.

[teamsaint]

I remember one Sunday going to Upton Park in the afternoon and the RFH in the evening to hear the Dresden Staatskapelle - (Haitink in Bruckner 3)...

Football ticket cost just over twice as much as the RFH ticket.

The football match was cr*p. The concert was incredible.

Serves me right for going to Upton Park, you'll tell me.

But it just shows you!

serves you right for going to upton park.

Footy is dreadful value in general, though Season tickets at Fulham are £400 which is teetering on the reasonable.

does the SBC have a team?!

[gradus]

I entirely support Mr Z's reaction, it is the height of bad manners to record someone performing without first seeking their permission. Walking out is however pretty tough on the rest of the audience who have paid to hear the performance and have not tried to record it. I hope that the offender was told to stop and that Mr Z then continued.

[Flosshilde]

line the pockets of artists and administrators.

ie pay them a wage - which might or might not be more than you think they are worth. It will also go to pay the heating bills, rates, cleaners, ushers & all the other people who work there.

Like most public performers, they are happy to be the beneficiaries of technology but unwilling to accept anything not on their terms.

Seems quite reasonable to me. Who's terms do you think they should accept?

I thought Zimerman's actions perfectly reasonable. He did return & continue the concert, but didn't provide an encore. Outrageous!

(I was at a concert by the BBCSSO recently; a few moments after the beginning of the second movement of the VW symphony somebody in the front row of the choir seats, & directly in front of the conductor, took a photograph of the conductor - the red light on his camera/phone went on. It was distracting for the audience, if not the conductor, & very inconsiderate)

[antongould]

I remember one Sunday going to Upton Park in the afternoon and the RFH in the evening to hear the Dresden Staatskapelle - (Haitink in Bruckner 3)...

Football ticket cost just over twice as much as the RFH ticket.

The football match was cr*p. The concert was incredible.

Serves me right for going to Upton Park, you'll tell me.

But it just shows you!

As many others have said and I'm sure more will say - serves you right for going to Upton Park! We're you hammered?

[french frank]

No one as yet has commented on the fact that Zimerman (and other performers) is implicitly happy to be party to inflated London concert ticket prices all of which proceeds go to line the pockets of artists and administrators. Like most public performers, they are happy to be the beneficiaries of technology but unwilling to accept anything not on their terms. Sorry; no sympathy for the petulant artist from this (former) fan.

I've little experience of London prices, having once paid £10 for a concert at Wigmore Hall, a cheapo 'best of what's left' at Kings Place and £38 and £5 at Proms. (And £22 once at ROH). That seems quite reasonable to me; from each according to his means. But this was in Germany at the Ruhr Piano Festival where, for example, you can go to a forthcoming Hélène Grimaud concert from €18. For inflated prices, look at the big, one-price pop concerts.

The filmers were asked to stop but they wouldn't. At that point, what does one do? Say, "Oh, all right, then. Carry on"? As others have said, this can also be very distracting for an audience.