Cracking down on middle lane hoggers...

[Sydney Grew]

So, I would really be obliged to any one who can throw any light on the current roundabout rules - have they changed? As I used to understand roundabouts, once I have got onto the left lane, I have the right to continue around the circle, and any one who wishes to turn off should first give way to me, and then turn off behind me. Is this still true or not?

[french frank]

So, I would really be obliged to any one who can throw any light on the current roundabout rules - have they changed? As I used to understand roundabouts, once I have got onto the left lane, I have the right to continue around the circle, and any one who wishes to turn off should first give way to me, and then turn off behind me. Is this still true or not?

I think it depends how many lanes there are, but the Highway Code says that if you are taking a right hand turn off the roundabout, you position yourself in the right hand lane to enter it http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/appendix-to-the-highway-code

[Sydney Grew]

Thanks for that link, doubtless the most authoritative available! But I like the way they begin with the let-out: "While this appendix provides general advice, other factors such as signs, road markings and the position and type of other vehicles can influence the choice of lane. Where there are signs or road markings which indicate appropriate lanes, these should assume priority over the following procedures."

Still, "Give way: the most important rule" is very wise. Unfortunately in Reading the population do not appear ever to have heard about that one.

[Quarky]

I think it depends how many lanes there are, but the Highway Code says that if you are taking a right hand turn off the roundabout, you position yourself in the right hand lane to enter it http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/appendix-to-the-highway-code

Thanks for that link FF - really useful.

But unfortunately these days, particularly with roundabouts near Motorway exits, they get so busy, with drivers determined to go their own way (not prepared to give way, as stated in your link), that it becomes a case of every man for himself. Drivers will frequently force themselves out onto the roundabout, causing traffic on the roundabout to stop.

As regards "magic" roundabouts, we have one in Hemel Hempstead. At rush hour morning times, it becomes completely congested and entangled.

The unfortunate conclusion for the driver who wishes to feel safe and comfortable while driving, is to avoid congestion spots and take the long way home.

[Serial_Apologist]

I have used the Basingstoke Road roundabout on many occasions, and never found it a problem. I think SG should try heading west from Reading to the 'Magic Roundabout' in Swindon:

I'd hate to be a cyclist trying to negotiate that roundabout! The answer often given to that one is, use the underpasses; but I see no underpasses on that photograph.

If the foregoing observation is so, I hope future planners either take account of cyclists' needs by installing such underpasses, or have serious second thoughts about "magic roundabouts" offering safe solutions for those of us trying to help solve problems of road congestion and vehicle emissions.

[Simon B]

The official Crown Prosecution guidelines are as follows (I think - though it's not my legal field - because speedometers are CALIbrated to give a margin for error).

On the case in question, in a 70 mph area, you will see that gurnemanz at 73mph will normally not be over the threshold for a fixed penalty notice.

In my (layperson's) understanding, the overall situation here is quite bizarre.

AIUI, exceeding the speed limit is both an absolute offence and has no margin for error per-se. In theory, you could be successfully prosecuted for doing e.g. 30.000001 mph if it were possible to meet the necessary burden of proof.

Meanwhile, the MOT test imposes no requirements on the accuracy of a private car's speedometer (http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s06000701.htm). AIUI, the requirement that one is even present was only introduced a few years ago! Absolutely barking mad IMO.

In practice, most speedos overread significantly by design. This can be 10%+ on older cars, e.g. on an old Vauxhall I drove recently the needle had to be just beyond the 80mph marker to get to a real 70. Before getting too steamed up about being overtaken by someone apparently doing 73mph, those prone to it should consider e.g. the possibility that the "perpetrator" may have properly calibrated instrumentation.


I've seen these guidelines somewhere before, and as before, this stands out:

Speed limit: 30 mph
Summons: 50 mph

Speed limit: 70 mph
Summons: 96 mph

The idea that exceeding a 30mph limit in a built-up area by 67% is somehow, all things being equal, an equivalently serious matter (requiring the wisdom of magistrates) to exceeding the motorway limit by 37% is insane IMO. The former is almost always going to be recklessness with a massively increased risk of a lethal outcome (largely to pedestrians) while the latter might often present less risk to anyone than driving on the same road within the limit on a different occasion.

While neither is likely to be a good idea most of the time, regardless of the law, the equating of the two is just one demonstration that far too much of this stuff is based on notion, symbolism and unthinking sentiment rather than cold rationality.

This is not the only area in which the Germans have the right idea!

[gurnemanz]

Going at 73mph is obviously illegal, but, as pointed out, speedometers can be inaccurate and the ACPO gives tolerance up to 79 on the motorway. Also, what I was referring to was an overtaking speed as distinct from a cruising speed.

It seems to me that speed as an absolute is not necessarily the paramount safety consideration on the motorway but to use your experience and common sense to adapt your speed to traffic, road and weather conditions and to leave sufficient space between yourself and the vehicle in front. Also, I have heard that in the Advanced Drivers' Test they always place emphasis on the importance for safe driving of paying careful attention to what is happening in the middle distance not just right in front of you.

Obviously, if you are driving at 70, under the law, no one should be overtaking you, but in practice you know that a large proportion of drivers will want to do so and will be able to do so safely and without getting penalised.

[Dave2002]

I sometimes sit in the middle lane depending on circumstances e.g. 1. If I can see slow moving vehicles in the inside lane ahead I know that if I move in I'll be blocked in shortly. 2. If I know an incoming junction is coming up, and I'll be likely to be pushed out again, or else forced to slow down (or speed up). I'm sorry if this upsets people who are determined to drive as fast as possible without triggering a penalty.

However, what really gets me is people in the middle lane who drive at between 65 and 70 and then accelerate to 75 as soon as one moves out to overtake. Sometime this may be subconscious, sometimes deliberate. I was behind a loon recently whose speed varied between 55 and 75. Every time I tried to pass the speed went up. Some other drivers even went round on the inside. The driver didn't look the sort to be playing games, but he might just as well have been because the effect was the same.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

there are far more miles of non motorway in which speed kills .... an interesting piece in the Indie

Since 2010 road deaths have started going up after a long period of decline. There were 1,901 people killed on Britain’s roads in 2011, up on the figure of 1,857 for 2010 which was itself the first year deaths had increased in almost 10 years.

Of those killed or seriously injured in 2011, speed was a factor in 3,267 cases.

To put the problem into some kind of context, half that number (1,605 people) died in the same year because of drug misuse. The hypocrisy of the hang ‘em and flog ‘em brigade is evident when one considers that those sections of the media which complain the loudest about a "war on the motorist" are usually the most gung ho when it comes to prosecuting things like the failed "war on drugs".

[french frank]

Cracking down on middle lane hoggers...to say nothing of 'fast lane hoggers'?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-22921809

[teamsaint]

A dreadful story.
in my driving experience, driving standards are at their worst on a Friday evening, although, obviously, that is a bit towards one end of the distribution curve !

[Quarky]

Cracking down on middle lane hoggers...to say nothing of 'fast lane hoggers'?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-22921809

Well, to state the obvious, there is a caste system on British motorways: 1) those who possess fast cars, or those who are prepared to drive vans or smaller cars very fast, and who are willing to take chances with safety; 2) those who prefer to stay within the law, and prefer to take reasonable measures to avoid accidents, that is they follow the highway code in general.

Unfortunately for those in caste 2), they have to grit their teeth, swallow hard, count to ten, and just keep out of the way of those in caste 1). The only alternative is to buy a Golf GTi or a BMW and to join the fastards in the outer lane.

I have an alternative mode of transport, which is a very powerful motorbike. Old age I guess, mostly I keep within the limits, but it will accelerate two or three times faster than most four wheel vehicles, which is very good for the ego. Its main use however is travelling on motorways and into Central London. Queues and traffic jams are sliced through, like a knife through butter.

However it seems that motorbikes have fallen out of favour, particularly with the transport esteblishment.

[teamsaint]

Well, to state the obvious, there is a caste system on British motorways: 1) those who possess fast cars, or those who are prepared to drive vans or smaller cars very fast, and who are willing to take chances with safety; 2) those who prefer to stay within the law, and prefer to take reasonable measures to avoid accidents, that is they follow the highway code in general.

Unfortunately for those in caste 2), they have to grit their teeth, swallow hard, count to ten, and just keep out of the way of those in caste 1). The only alternative is to buy a Golf GTi or a BMW and to join the fastards in the outer lane.

I have an alternative mode of transport, which is a very powerful motorbike. Old age I guess, mostly I keep within the limits, but it will accelerate two or three times faster than most four wheel vehicles, which is very good for the ego. Its main use however is travelling on motorways and into Central London. Queues and traffic jams are sliced through, like a knife through butter.

However it seems that motorbikes have fallen out of favour, particularly with the transport esteblishment.

I hope yours is the sort that RT sings about......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgxbCnqCyKA

[Nick Armstrong]

Any fans of the middle-lane out there: note that the new penalty régime comes into force today!

[Quarky]

Any fans of the middle-lane out there: note that the new penalty régime comes into force today!

In response to a query, Department of Transport informed me that the penalties have quite wide application:

Examples of low level careless driving where a fixed penalty would apply include:
- driving too close to another vehicle (tail-gaiting)
- lane discipline (middle lane hogging)
- using the wrong lane at a roundabout
- overtaking and pushing into an orderly queue
- failing to give way at a junction (not causing evasive action by another driver)
- ignoring a lane closed sign
- inappropriate speed
- wheel spins
- hand brake turns