Cracking down on middle lane hoggers...

[french frank]

kernelbogey, I am reminded of a comment from my PCV driving instructor of many moons back. For drivers, MSM stands for Mirror, Signal, Maneuver. For the steering wheel jockey it's Maneuver, Signal, look in the Mirror to check the havoc caused, thought the Mirror check is purely optional, as it the Signal really.

Yes, and I suppose I'm probably too wary about being on the same road as anyone else not to make it clear in plenty of time what I propose to do.

I'm also of the 'stay in the middle rather than be continually pulling in and out' school. But the circumstance would be that the inside lane has a fairly constant flow of slow moving traffic and you're travelling significantly faster. In other words, you are always looking ahead and gauging how soon you will have to overtake again if you do pull in.

[kernelbogey]

...I'm also of the 'stay in the middle rather than be continually pulling in and out' school. But the circumstance would be that the inside lane has a fairly constant flow of slow moving traffic and you're travelling significantly faster. In other words, you are always looking ahead and gauging how soon you will have to overtake again if you do pull in.

I imagine that if the traffic police have to make judgments about whom to fine, it will sometimes be a close call.

[cloughie]

Living 100 miles from the nearest motorway I have forgotten - what are these middle lanes?

[teamsaint]

The Magic Roundabout actually works fine, though you need to be reasonably decisive !

Wiltshire has for some years been the central hub for distribution of Mini roundabouts from the EU " Mini roundabout mountain."

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Living 100 miles from the nearest motorway I have forgotten - what are these middle lanes?

Ghastly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSNSTerj2Kc

"The middle lane is the only one that does not lead to Rome" (Schoenberg; adapted, fhg)

[cloughie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tcXblWojdM

Or is this the style?

[gradus]

Is it suggested that driving in the middle lane at 70 is wrong? Heavy goods vehicles travelling at or near 60 usually occupy the nearside lane movng out to overtake, sometimes excrutiatingly slowly. I tend to stay in the middle of 3 lanes in order to avoid constant lane changes and to allow the 70mph+ brigade to speed past in the outer lane. Have I got it wrong?

[vinteuil]

Wiltshire has for some years been the central hub for distribution of Mini roundabouts from the EU " Mini roundabout mountain."

... Yes! I am sure that backhanders were involved at some stage. The number of mini-roundabouts in Trowbridge surely indicates they were on some kind of commission...

[gurnemanz]

Is it suggested that driving in the middle lane at 70 is wrong? Heavy goods vehicles travelling at or near 60 usually occupy the nearside lane movng out to overtake, sometimes excrutiatingly slowly. I tend to stay in the middle of 3 lanes in order to avoid constant lane changes and to allow the 70mph+ brigade to speed past in the outer lane. Have I got it wrong?

Emphatically yes. If you are in the middle lane going 70 with the lane inside you empty you are selfishly blocking me if I want to overtake you at 73 mph and cannot move into the outside lane to do so because it is occupied by a stream of others driving faster than I wish to go. The rule is quite simple: if the lane inside you is free, you move over. Your desire "to avoid constant lane changes" may suit you but it irritates and inconveniences others and is potentially dangerous. This is why it is proposed to fine people who insist on doing it.

[Nick Armstrong]

Have I got it wrong?

I'm afraid I have to agree 100% with gurnemanz's answer to that question, gradus...

[cloughie]

Emphatically yes. If you are in the middle lane going 70 with the lane inside you empty you are selfishly blocking me if I want to overtake you at 73 mph and cannot move into the outside lane to do so because it is occupied by a stream of others driving faster than I wish to go. The rule is quite simple: if the lane inside you is free, you move over. Your desire "to avoid constant lane changes" may suit you but it irritates and inconveniences others and is potentially dangerous. This is why it is proposed to fine people who insist on doing it.

Excuse my pedantry but a) you shouldn't be overtaking at 73 mph and those in the outside lane should not be going faster than you. If doing 70 in the middle lane that's fine providing the inside lane is not clear. The real problem lies with dawdlers in the middle lane, though if speed limits were adhered to then it should be OK a lot of the time to overtake at 70 in the outside lane, but then there are those selfish lawbreakers who want to do 80,85 90 or whatever!
Surely as a legal man you see this cali or is there money to be made from speeders and it would appear in future from dawdlers?

[Nick Armstrong]

Excuse my pedantry but a) you shouldn't be overtaking at 73 mph and those in the outside lane should not be going faster than you. If doing 70 in the middle lane that's fine providing the inside lane is not clear. The real problem lies with dawdlers in the middle lane, though if speed limits were adhered to then it should be OK a lot of the time to overtake at 70 in the outside lane, but then there are those selfish lawbreakers who want to do 80,85 90 or whatever!
Surely as a legal man you see this cali or is there money to be made from speeders and it would appear in future from dawdlers?

The official Crown Prosecution guidelines are as follows (I think - though it's not my legal field - because speedometers are CALIbrated to give a margin for error).

On the case in question, in a 70 mph area, you will see that gurnemanz at 73mph will normally not be over the threshold for a fixed penalty notice.

Speed Enforcement
The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has issued speed enforcement policy guidance, which suggests that enforcement will normally occur when a driver exceeds the speed limit by a particular margin. This is normally 10 per cent over the speed limit plus 2 mph. It also sets guidelines for when it would not be appropriate to issue a fixed penalty notice but to issue a summons instead (see below). Note that these are guidelines and that a police officer has discretion to act outside of them providing he acts fairly, consistently and proportionately.

Speed limit: 20 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 24 mph
Summons: 35 mph

Speed limit: 30 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 35 mph
Summons: 50 mph

Speed limit: 40 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 46 mph
Summons: 66 mph

Speed limit: 50 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 57 mph
Summons: 76 mph

Speed limit: 60 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 68 mph
Summons: 86 mph

Speed limit: 70 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 79 mph
Summons: 96 mph

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_fixed_penalty_notices/#speed

[gradus]

If I see someone in the the middle lane wanting to overtake me whilst I'm travelling at 70 and the inner lane is either blocked or to move would cause a following vehicle in the inner lane to slow or take avoiding action, I stay put. The outside lane is not for speeding but is most certainly for overtaking and in so doing exceeding the speed limit if the middle lane is travelling at 70mph.
People who drive too slowly in the middle lane can be frustrating but too slowly depends on context and I see nothing wrong with travelling at under 60 in the middle lane if the inside lane is occupied by slower drivers. Am I alone in having been tailgated by someone in a dreadful rush only to catch them up at the next traffic hold up?
Driving too fast is a major problem as is lack of consideration for other road users and sheer impatience. Every driver makes errors and one should always drive defensively.

[kernelbogey]

If I see someone in the the middle lane wanting to overtake me whilst I'm travelling at 70 and the inner lane is either blocked or to move would cause a following vehicle in the inner lane to slow or take avoiding action, I stay put. The outside lane is not for speeding but is most certainly for overtaking and in so doing exceeding the speed limit if the middle lane is travelling at 70mph.
People who drive too slowly in the middle lane can be frustrating but too slowly depends on context and I see nothing wrong with travelling at under 60 in the middle lane if the inside lane is occupied by slower drivers. Am I alone in having been tailgated by someone in a dreadful rush only to catch them up at the next traffic hold up?
Driving too fast is a major problem as is lack of consideration for other road users and sheer impatience. Every driver makes errors and one should always drive defensively.

The problem we all have to grapple with is that we have too many cars for the amount of roads and motorways we have.

My concern is that this new law may be applied in a blanket way by traffic police, when, as the comments on this thread show, the choice of lane depends on many varying factors and drivers' assessment of them.

The other problem is that the de facto speed limit on motorways is 80 mph, as everyone assumes that they won't be nicked at that speed - which also seems to be a fact. So people who are willing to risk being caught frequently exceed 80 mph.

[EdgeleyRob]

I have used the Basingstoke Road roundabout on many occasions, and never found it a problem. I think SG should try heading west from Reading to the 'Magic Roundabout' in Swindon:

I don't think it's as bad as it looks.
Mind you I've only ever used it two or three times (football ground).