The triumph of the tom-tom

[remdataram]

Here's a member of the hoi polloi who thought this thread was about sat navs...

Me too - I think we need redirecting.....

[french frank]

Well, I think we should congratulate Sydney on his careful omission of the normally-present but strictly redundant English definite article when he wrote in his OP of hoi polloi.

I'm not sure about that. Personally, I would have no hesitation in writing 'the hoi polloi' (were I ever to employ the phrase) because as a term it has generally gained a peculiarly pejorative meaning (implicit in the OP?) in class-ridden English society, which is not present in the Greek. Omitting the (double) article, to me reflects the neutral Greek meaning where the pejorative is intended.

Am I at fault in this?

[amateur51]

I'm not sure about that. Personally, I would have no hesitation in writing 'the hoi polloi' (were I ever to employ the phrase) because as a term it has generally gained a peculiarly pejorative meaning (implicit in the OP?) in class-ridden English society, which is not present in the Greek. Omitting the (double) article, to me reflects the neutral Greek meaning where the pejorative is intended.

Am I at fault in this?

Or just too clever by half, french frank?

[jean]

From a discussion elsewhere on this topic:

Byron wrote the 'οι πολλοι in the two alphabets -- perhaps copying Dryden who wrote it the same way in 1668. The nineteenth century quotes in the OED use the Roman alphabet the (h)oi polloi. Not until 1905 is there a journalistic hoi polloi without the.

When educated people were familiar with Greek, they didn't have to prove it. Nowadays the less you know, the keener you are to proclaim your knowledge.

How this might apply to Sydney's OP, I should not care to say.

Or to the Fairies in Iolanthe, for that matter:

PEERS: Our lordly style
You shall not quench
With base canaille!

FAIRIES: (That word is French.)

PEERS: Distinction ebbs
Before a herd
Of vulgar plebs!

FAIRIES: (A Latin word.)

PEERS: 'Twould fill with joy,
And madness stark
The hoi polloi!

FAIRIES: (A Greek remark.)

[Tapiola]

I think he is referring to the end of Verdi's Requiem ?

Per Nørgård's Symphonies 6 and 7?

[MrGongGong]

Per Nørgård's Symphonies 6 and 7?

[Flosshilde]

Here's a member of the hoi polloi who thought this thread was about sat navs...

Oh - I thought it was about GongGong's younger brother.

[MrGongGong]

Oh - I thought it was about GongGong's younger brother.

You mean Tam Tam ?

[Flosshilde]

Isn't he your older brother?

Or am I getting him confused with your cousin, Bim Bam?

[MrGongGong]

Isn't he your older brother?

Or am I getting him confused with your cousin, Bim Bam?

Or my South African cousin ?

(dik dik)

and so on ......... but what on earth is Sid on about ?

[burning dog]

Don't forget Bam Bam..

[burning dog]

Boom Boom

[Beef Oven]

Now that's talkin' blues!

[Quarky]

Don't think we can credit the Hoi Polloi as listening to anything so tasteful as Blues or Jazz. Anyway this is the contemporary music board?

The best I can come up with is Tom Tom club What are words worth? Wordy Rappinghood.

Or perhaps Sidney has been listening to too much Chill Music on dab?

[french frank]

Me too - I think we need redirecting.....

I propose moving this thread to Syd's own 'Pedants' Paradise' thread as, although his main (original) point was about music, the Hear and Now board is specifically about new 'classical music' and his references to guitars, wailing screeching, tom toms and monotonous mutter don't immediately relate to the board topic. That's my reasoning, anyway, however faulty.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?799-Pedants-Paradise