The triumph of the tom-tom

[Sydney Grew]

I do not want to be associated with this thread.

[Pabmusic]

For the past fifty years, hoi polloi's idea of "music" has in their ignorance been a guitar and a wail or a screech. (Not a lot of notes, that was the point.)

Just recently, though, a sea-change has come. Now hoi polloi's idea of "music" is in their even profounder ignorance tom-toms and a monotonous mutter. (No notes at all.) This is far worse and actually deters me from venturing into certain spots.

It's obviously because they no longer have baths to put their coal in. Or coal to put in their baths. Someone needs to invent a virtual bath and virtual coal, with a loud soundtrack - then they can sing as they fill their virtual bath with virtual coal.

Or perhaps not.



[Do sea-changes come or come about? ]

[Bryn]

For the past fifty years, hoi polloi's idea of "music" has in their ignorance been a guitar and a wail or a screech. (Not a lot of notes, that was the point.)

Just recently, though, a sea-change has come. Now hoi polloi's idea of "music" is in their even profounder ignorance tom-toms and a monotonous mutter. (No notes at all.) This is far worse and actually deters me from venturing into certain spots.

Please offer some examples of this intriguing new art form.

[MrGongGong]

Please offer some examples of this intriguing new art form.

I think he is referring to the end of Verdi's Requiem ?

[LeMartinPecheur]

[Do sea-changes come or come about? ]

Sailing boats frequently go about during sea-changes

[aeolium]

When did the term "sea-change" start being used to mean a transformation that has nothing to do with the sea, unlike its early use in The Tempest, where Ariel sings that "Nothing of him that doth fade,/But doth suffer a sea-change,/Into something rich and strange"?

Pabmusic?

[eighthobstruction]

I've always thought 'seed' change would be better....

[Pabmusic]

When did the term "sea-change" start being used to mean a transformation that has nothing to do with the sea, unlike its early use in The Tempest, where Ariel sings that "Nothing of him that doth fade,/But doth suffer a sea-change,/Into something rich and strange"?

Pabmusic?

A really interesting question (by which answer you'll know that I haven't a clue). I think we can hazard a guess that it didn't take so very long, because the sense of transformation has always been there. My usual books are unhelpful, except for confirming that its first appearance was in The Tempest. I looked online, but there's nothing that helps much. Merriam-Webster gives two separate meanings - change by the sea (archaic) and transformation. That is not so common with my other dictionaries, so I'd guess it's recent (say since the 1980s), but beyond that I'm stumped.

[french frank]

When did the term "sea-change" start being used to mean a transformation that has nothing to do with the sea, unlike its early use in The Tempest, where Ariel sings that "Nothing of him that doth fade,/But doth suffer a sea-change,/Into something rich and strange"?

According to the OED, the first example noted was

1948 A. C. Baugh Lit. Hist. Eng. II. ix. 173 An interesting paper suggesting that romance is transplanted epic, which has undergone a kind of sea-change in the passage. [I believe this is the American academic Albert C Baugh]

Before that the quotes did have references to the sea, including one by Ezra Pound.

[Pabmusic]

According to the OED, the first example noted was

1948 A. C. Baugh Lit. Hist. Eng. II. ix. 173 An interesting paper suggesting that romance is transplanted epic, which has undergone a kind of sea-change in the passage. (I believe this might be the American academic Albert C Baugh)

Before that the quotes did have references to the sea, including one by Ezra Pound.

Brilliant!

[aeolium]

Thanks, ff. It's rather sad that a term that was originally vivid, poetic and precise in its allusion to the transformation wrought by the sea has just become another fancy word for significant change, with the marine association being totally redundant.

[Pabmusic]

Thanks, ff. It's rather sad that a term that was originally vivid, poetic and precise in its allusion to the transformation wrought by the sea has just become another fancy word for significant change, with the marine association being totally redundant.

'Twere ever thus. It seems to me that there's a natural tendency for words to grow towards each other, rather than to diversify.

[jean]

Well, I think we should congratulate Sydney on his careful omission of the normally-present but strictly redundant English definite article when he wrote in his OP of hoi polloi.

[Pabmusic]

Well, I think we should congratulate Sydney on his careful omission of the normally-present but strictly redundant English definite article when he wrote in his OP of hoi polloi.

Indeed. But he missed the chance to wrtie οἱ πολλοί.

[pastoralguy]

Here's a member of the hoi polloi who thought this thread was about sat navs...