Further reflections on the funeral

[Richard Barrett]

WE ?

Propriety forbids me from describing how "well" I would have carried out the event under discussion had it fallen to me to do so.

The [offensive language delted] (a formulation worthy of Oscar Wilde at his wittiest, if I may be so bold) who weren't born during the Thatcher régime have nevertheless had to live with its continuing aftermath, and have as much right to express their views as those of us who suffered it at the time.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

RB: it was your claim (not mine) that the number of events has fallen since the Thatcher days. I've really no idea, one way or the other, though I very much doubt the claim.

You've provided no data about number of events, only data about funding in 2005-6 and then claimed, without proof, that the funding is less than in Thatcher's days. There is no data given for the Thatcher days. Nor is there any substantiation that you have identified all sources of arts funding past and present. Where is present-day lottery funding, BBC funding, in your remarks?

Of course, private funding is going to be influenced by profitability, just as public funding is going to be influenced by the state of public finances (both of which are in a parlous state at present). So I'm not in the least surprised Arts funding is tight at the moment.

So no: that will not do for now, not by a country mile.

[MrGongGong]

That latter two are not remotely comparable to the first, Mr.GG.

Did you not read what I wrote ?
Big events ?
you need either a "lefty luvvie" (as with the olympics) or a evil dictatorship

Propriety forbids me from describing how "well" I would have carried out the event under discussion had it fallen to me to do so.

The "leftie cretins" (a formulation worthy of Oscar Wilde at his wittiest, if I may be so bold) who weren't born during the Thatcher régime have nevertheless had to live with its continuing aftermath, and have as much right to express their views as those of us who suffered it at the time.

Absolutely ......... So I guess there's no Ligeti then

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i find the persistence of personally abusive posting most unwelcome and would ask all to mind their manners please

it is entirely possible to discuss such matters without recourse to name calling and personal attacks

we are members of a community here, identified by our interest in Radio 3, its mission and achievement as well as the content it might be expected to compass - this does include matters of social, historical and political importance and it is fit that they be discussed here ....

how, do you suppose, on the one hand can we be taken as a credible opinion when criticising the R3 for dumbing down the content [gardening tools anyone]; while on the other hand, we exhibit such naive bad manners as in this thread and others of its ilk?

[Richard Barrett]

A_I_C, my exact words were: "... the shift was from public funding to no funding. The figures on this aren't difficult to come by if you're interested in getting the facts straight." I obtained some figures concerning that particular subject. Now you want figures on the number of events. Funding to the Arts Council was progressively cut during the Thatcher years (beginning with an 8% cut in 1979/80), a policy which the ConDems are now implementing with even greater alacrity, with hundreds of arts companies losing their funding altogether. "Between 1979 and 1997 we lost 25% of all the regional theatres in this country" (Nicholas Hytner) How all this is supposed to translate into anything but a reduction in what's being offered to the public is a mystery to me which perhaps you can elucidate.

[Mr Pee]

I must say, altough I was unable watch the funeral service itself from beginning to end, the "In Paradisum" sounded absolutely beautiful, and I also noticed that during the coffin's brief rest at St.Clement Danes, the organist was playing "Softly and Gently" from The Dream of Gerontius. I thought it was a nice touch by Sky news to pretty much dispense with commentary during the service; details of the music were scrolled across the bottom of the screen at the appropriate moments.

I trust the military coffin bearers are now having some well deserved refreshment. A nerve-wracking experience I am sure.

I was also pleased that the Iron Lady got a respectful send off from the considerable crowds that lined the route.

[BBMmk2]

I hope they have a good meal too! The music was the usual high standard. Andrew Carwood did an excellant job.

What apity there was a minor disturbance at Ludgate Hill. I saw a missile hit one or more of the horses!! No respect at all.

[MrGongGong]

No respect at all.

Respect is earned not enforced by state decree

[An_Inspector_Calls]

A_I_C, my exact words were: "... the shift was from public funding to no funding. The figures on this aren't difficult to come by if you're interested in getting the facts straight." I obtained some figures concerning that particular subject.

All you obtained were present-day figures, with no comparison back to pre or during Thatcher days, and nothing to support your contention that public funding was entirely cut.

Now you want figures on the number of events.

Well that was the first point made in the first sentence of your reply to me, so I've assumed all along that was your main contention. Your subsidiary second point, in the same, first sentence was that the number of events occurring are usually on a smaller scale. I still find both claims quite amazing and cannot see how they can possibly be true, especially for music.

Funding to the Arts Council was progressively cut during the Thatcher years (beginning with an 8% cut in 1979/80), a policy which the ConDems are now implementing with even greater alacrity, with hundreds of arts companies losing their funding altogether. "Between 1979 and 1997 we lost 25% of all the regional theatres in this country" (Nicholas Hytner) How all this is supposed to translate into anything but a reduction in what's being offered to the public is a mystery to me which perhaps you can elucidate.

I'm not surprised that funding was cut in 1979/80 given the state of the public finances at that time and the same applies to the present day. As for the loss of regional theatres, well how much of that was down to cuts in public funding, and how much to falling audiences? I'll bet the same, or worse, loss rate goes for provincial cinemas. Our local town had 5 cinemas in the 60s, now it has none. The loss is nothing to do with subsidy in any way; going to the cinema went out of fashion and people stayed home and watched TV.

[Boilk]

What apity there was a minor disturbance at Ludgate Hill. I saw a missile hit one or more of the horses!! No respect at all.

Indeed ... the poor horses were simply doing their job.

An ironic twist of circumstances from the oft-repeated film footage showing horses trampling over miners and Poll Tax protestors. No respect at all, those uniformed horsemen.

[Richard Barrett]

A_I_C, I'm sure (as in fact I was at the start) that no further citing of facts and figures is going to satisfy or convince you in any way, so I won't waste my time on it any more. You don't come back with any facts of your own except on an anecdotal level, and all you do is complain about my findings being the wrong ones.

But since you prefer anecdotes, mine is that it became clear to me in the course of the Thatcher years that if things carried on in that direction there was no way I was going to be able indefinitely to give the commitment I thought necessary to my musical work, given that there remained so little support for commissioning, performing or presenting it (outside of the BBC, I should perhaps add). So please don't try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Accordingly, as soon as the opportunity arose (not until 1993) I left the country and I've never regretted that decision. I feel nothing but admiration for artists who have managed to soldier on in what, in my experience, is the most institutionally philistine country in Europe apart from Italy (which is not saying very much), a conclusion which has only been confirmed by the gruesomely sycophantic pageantry that's going on today.

[Mr Pee]

the gruesomely sycophantic pageantry that's going on today.

Or appropriately respectful ceremonial.

[Barbirollians]

£10 million - just think what that could have been spent on rather than this overblown event . Welfare benefits advice for all those about to have their disability benefits cut for a start.

I still have heard no proper explanation as to why it was not privatised ? After all privatisation of the health service , prisons and just about everything else is what she stood for .

[Serial_Apologist]

£10 million - just think what that could have been spent on rather than this overblown event . Welfare benefits advice for all those about to have their disability benefits cut for a start.

I still have heard no proper explanation as to why it was not privatised ? After all privatisation of the health service , prisons and just about everything else is what she stood for .

I am sure An Inspector Calls could provide you with an answer, Barbirollians.

[amateur51]

I am sure An Inspector Calls could provide you with an answer, Barbirollians.