Old lady dies (see other post)

[eighthobstruction]

Interesting examples Julien....

[ahinton]

The moment a discussion thread gets "out of hand" there's talk of banning this subject or that (as if music, politics, religion and dead people were completely disconnected from one another). IMO that seems a lot like the kind of ill-considered and counterproductive control-freakery that led for example (if I may, under present circumstances) to Clause 28 and the banning from the airwaves of IRA members' voices.

Of course, as ahinton never tires of informing us, it's french frank's call; but I'm sure I'm not the only one whose interest would wane in inverse proportion to restrictions like that. Isn't it interesting though to take part in discussions on subjects other than the central interest that brings everyone here?

If I have reminded people here of whose call it is too many times, then I apologise (if need be) for stating a fact with undue frequency; having said that, however, I agree entirely with all that you write here, not least because this forum would easily risk becoming far too anodyne if too many such "restrictive practices" were to be introduced and maintained as a matter of principle.

[Beef Oven]

If I have reminded people here of whose call it is too many times, then I apologise (if need be) for stating a fact with unde frequency; having said that, however, I agree entirely with all that you write here, not least because this forum would easily risk becoming far too anodyne if too many such "restrictive practices" were to be introduced and maintained as a matter of principle.

True, but maybe I'm in a minority here. My interest would wane in proportion to restrictions.

[ahinton]

True, but maybe I'm in a minority here. My interest would wane in proportion to restrictions.

Well, I don't know if you would be in such a minority; I cannot say with certainty, but I rather doubt that a waning of interest in proportion to restrictions on what might be discussed here is likely to be confined to you, Richard Barrett and me...

[Beef Oven]

Well, I don't know if you would be in such a minority; I cannot say with certainty, but I rather doubt that a waning of interest in proportion to restrictions on what might be discussed here is likely to be confined to you, Richard Barrett and me...

I've just realised that RB almost certainly fell foul of an inadvertant double-negative. We probably are saying the same thing and I'm not in a minority.

[french frank]

Of course, as ahinton never tires of informing us, it's french frank's call; but I'm sure I'm not the only one whose interest would wane in inverse proportion to restrictions like that. Isn't it interesting though to take part in discussions on subjects other than the central interest that brings everyone here?

Richard

I certainly would hold that one of the features of this forum is that it attracts people of widely differing viewpoints and I am fully approving of this and would have no wish to limit discussion (or membership) to those who can be relied on to agree on every topic in an entirely civilised and polite way (or, by tacit agreement, abusively). It is simply my own, now folorn, hope that they can disagree in the same civilised fashion, and I'm grateful to those such as yourself who can make points trenchantly without resorting to abuse. But even you would have to admit that the majority of your contributions here since you rejoined have not been to 'the central interest that brings everyone here' which was my point about topics which draw people away from the central interest.

This being a Friends of Radio 3 enterprise, it's rather annoying that there is a tendency for opposing factions to characterise it, disparagingly, as a general haven for the faction they disagree with.


Yes, 8thO, a thread can, like the Diversions forum, remain open for comments while not showing up in What's New? This forum normally has the url posted in the main thread from which posts have been detached and continues to be open for comments. Mysteriously, once removed from the gaze of the general public, members seem to lose interest in continuing the debate.

[eighthobstruction]

I have no idea where the Diversion forum is or how to get there....I've heard you speak of the 'basement'....I think if we 'All' knew that was where to start a politics/whatever non music thread....we would build it into our reflexs and muscle memory as where to go....usually by the time the threads disappear to Diversions they are well past SBD....

[scottycelt]

But it's necessary to look at the Platform 3 discussions in order to erm look at them - just like it's necessary to look at the BAL discussions to read those. They aren't forced on people ... There are threads here on beer and bottles of wine. I don't need to read them.

My sentiments exactly.

Futhermore, there must be fairly active members like myself who are interested in classical music, listen to R3, but are simply not sufficiently qualified to engage in many of the music threads, even though we may often read and learn from them. Platform 3 gives some of us the opportunity to make our own contributions (however inadequate) towards discussing all sorts of mutually-interesting subjects, not just politics and religion. The problem with the last two is not the subjects themselves ... of vital importance to many in their lives ... but the wholly unnecessary personal abuse directed by a few against those with whom they strongly disagree.

IMV, it would be a great shame to lose Plat 3, but it is up to members themselves to leave out the silly abuse which, apart from anything else, is grossly unfair and disrespectful towards the Hosts.

As some have mentioned previously, surely one of the least controversial and "friendliest" threads on this splendid forum has to be the football one ..

[aeolium]

But even you would have to admit that the majority of your contributions here since you rejoined have not been to 'the central interest that brings everyone here' which was my point about topics which draw people away from the central interest.

But that raises the point about the 'central interest'. Is it Radio 3 and its programmes, as the forum title might suggest? Yet if one looks at the actual threads, threads and numbers of postings about matters unrelated to Radio 3 enormously outweigh those relating to Radio 3 and its programmes. Even if one considers purely threads relating to music (and the arts) I suggest that the postings relating directly to Radio 3 programmes are again enormously outnumbered by those about people's musical interests, principally but not solely re classical music. What the forum has succeeded in doing is not focussing people's minds on R3 and its programmes, but rather in bringing together a community where there are common interests in music and the arts but (like any other community) who are interested in discussing other things as well. I think the fact that so many of the discussions follow more general musical or other topics rather than R3 programmes reflects the extent to which R3 now fails to be in any way central to the listening habits of most people here, which of course supports FoR3's claims about its failings. But it also suggests that R3 and its programmes are very far from being the 'central interest' to most people posting here.

[eighthobstruction]

One thing I'd like to ask ff is....was the FoR3 board pre Sept 2010 a functioning message board....and if it was a functioning board : Was it what you wanted it to be?....

[french frank]

One thing I'd like to ask ff is....was the FoR3 board pre Sept 2010 a functioning message board....and if it was a functioning board : Was it what you wanted it to be?....

I'll take this one first .

No, it wasn't functioning: it was intended to serve the same purpose as this one but was closed down, after a year or so, through lack of use. It was started after the BBC boards went through a silly phase in 2007, insisting that listeners could discuss particular individual programmes but that any other posts were off-topic and would be removed (and they were - ruthlessly). People were so thoroughly fed up that we decided, since the BBC boards weren't fulfilling the listeners' needs, to set up a forum of our own (still 2007) where they could discuss R3 and wider arts issues.

Setting up on our own website was slightly complicated, and in the two weeks it took us to set it up, the original r3ok appeared. There was immediately a general exodus from the BBC boards and those who might have used our forum didn't arrive. We never recovered because, although we coaxed a number of registered supporters of FoR3 to join, on the whole they weren't (and still aren't) into the messageboard culture, so didn't post. After struggling for a year or two as a man and his dog we just closed it, but leaving the forum software in place.

[french frank]

But that raises the point about the 'central interest'. Is it Radio 3 and its programmes, as the forum title might suggest? Yet if one looks at the actual threads, threads and numbers of postings about matters unrelated to Radio 3 enormously outweigh those relating to Radio 3 and its programmes. Even if one considers purely threads relating to music (and the arts) I suggest that the postings relating directly to Radio 3 programmes are again enormously outnumbered by those about people's musical interests, principally but not solely re classical music. What the forum has succeeded in doing is not focussing people's minds on R3 and its programmes, but rather in bringing together a community where there are common interests in music and the arts but (like any other community) who are interested in discussing other things as well. I think the fact that so many of the discussions follow more general musical or other topics rather than R3 programmes reflects the extent to which R3 now fails to be in any way central to the listening habits of most people here, which of course supports FoR3's claims about its failings. But it also suggests that R3 and its programmes are very far from being the 'central interest' to most people posting here.

I think that's a fair résumé. Fairly loosely, it was my idea that we should include the topics that might be covered, raised or discussed on Radio 3 programmes, as falling within its remit. Hence we set up the boards exactly like the BBC boards in the coverage. A speech programme like Night Waves can cover a range of contemporary issues; but it's true, if we remember, that the main change to the Third Programme when it morphed into Radio 3 is that it should lose politics and current affairs to Radio 4 (but retain a religious component).

As Friends of Radio 3 we support the range of programming: principally 'classical music', but also jazz, world music and the spoken arts more generally. The main thrust of our argument is that the coverage should presume that listeners are knowledgeable enthusiasts, whatever the music, whatever the topic. Not experts, not professionals (necessarily) but people who are interested enough to pursue the subjects in some depth. We oppose the BBC strategy of setting a majority of the peaktime/daytime programming at a level suitable for beginners to attract new listeners, CFM style, who find the notion of depth and seriousness 'daunting'. This mainly affects the part of the schedule set aside for classical music, hence the dissatisfaction of classical listeners.

[Serial_Apologist]

I think the fact that so many of the discussions follow more general musical or other topics rather than R3 programmes reflects the extent to which R3 now fails to be in any way central to the listening habits of most people here, which of course supports FoR3's claims about its failings.

This cannot be over-emphasised when considering should the forum be reduced in scope.

[Beef Oven]

Futhermore, there must be fairly active members like myself who are interested in classical music, listen to R3, but are simply not sufficiently qualified to engage in many of the music threads, even though we may often read and learn from them.

That's a shame.

To refer to the late, great, Robert Simpson, I don't know the difference between a rising 5th and a rissole; but it does not stop me marching seriously towards musical discussions with an ill-advised confidence and joining in; even though contributors include professional musicians, composers, experts and similar such as MrGG, ahinton, suffolkcoastal, fernie, Bryn et al.

That's the beauty of this place. The shame is that sometimes we let the child in us spoil it a bit (and the adult malady of holding a grudge).

.

[Serial_Apologist]

That's a shame.

To refer to the late, great, Robert Simpson, I don't know the difference between a rising 5th and a rissole; but it does not stop me marching seriously towards musical discussions, with an ill-advised confidence and joining in; even though contributors include professional musicians and composers and similar such as MrGG, ahinton, suffolkcoastal, fernie, Bryn et al.

That's the beauty of this place. The shame is that sometimes we let the child in us spoil it a bit (and the adult malady of holding a grudge).

.

It's also worth remembering that R3 covers more than just music.