Old lady dies (see other post)

[Pabmusic]

No mention of Radio 3 programming or strategy; or music or the arts? 'nuff said, really.

So you would limit discussion only to Radio 3 programming or strategy, music or the arts? Really?

Of course the contributors to this forum are going to say what a splendid thing Platform 3 is. I am talking about the 95% of forum members who no longer contribute at all or only minimally to the For3 forum. If we are happy for this forum to be a vehicle for a tiny clique then, by all means, keep the status quo. I still suggest that it would be worth asking the opinion of all forum members their opinion.

Do you have evidence for the claim that 95% of forum members no longer contribute? That would be more that 1300 members. And if it is true, how do you know they no longer contribute because of the nature of discussions on Platform 3?

[Sir Velo]

So you would limit discussion only to Radio 3 programming or strategy, music or the arts? Really?

Personally, I would. The clue is in the name of the forum. You don't go on a sports forum to discuss politics or vice versa, so why expect to do that here?

Do you have evidence for the claim that 95% of forum members no longer contribute? That would be more that 1300 members.

As it happens I do. Look at the members list and their statistics and you will see that a very small minority post with anything like regularity. One only has to look at any of the threads on Platform 3 to see that it is the same 20 or 30 posters who come for their own private feuds. When was the last time any new forum member joined or stayed around for any length of time? That to me is suggestive.

And if it is true, how do you know they no longer contribute because of the nature of discussions on Platform 3?

Now you're putting words in my mouth. What I said was that we should canvass their opinions as to why they no longer contribute.

Look I appreciate getting Platform 3 regulars to agree to this is like getting turkeys to vote for Christmas. If the forum decided that Platform 3 should go, we may well see the passing of a number of contributors. At least in the short term this might mean a decline in activity. However, it's just possible that a great many more will be attracted back to the boards. New contributors are the lifeblood of any forum. This one has gone stale.

[Dave2002]

Pabmusic and Sir Velo

It is quite common for many users of forums and similar online tools to appear to be passive. Many users will be readers only - so called lurkers, while others may only contribute occasionally. Trying to manage a forum for the benefit of lurkers, who, by definition will not contribute, or give any significant information as to why or how they use the forum, is going to be hard. It will be possible to track log-ins, for those who have taken the trouble to register, though where guest access is permitted tracking by log-ins is not going to work. It might be possible to track guest users by IP address, though is it really worth it? Why?

There will generally be a relatively small active community of forum members, and it may be possible to elicit opinions from those. Also, if there were proposals for change, or other management of a forum, it is just possible that the lurkers (silent majority?) might participate in a survey or vote, which could shape the way things go.

I would agree that the association with Radio 3 is now tenuous, and if there is a mission (heaven forbid that we should have a mission statement!) most of us have long forgotten what that might be.

As a place to hang out this is fine, and personally I have found it very useful and learnt a lot, mostly about music, but also about technical matters.

At this point, I wonder why I am writing this on a thread entitled "Old lady dies (see other post)". I suggest that if some of the active members want to discuss how the forum should be run, we do it on another thread. Maybe there are ways of getting the lurkers involved. Maybe we should have periodic votes on the way forward. Etc. Etc. Etc.

[Pabmusic]

...Look I appreciate getting Platform 3 regulars to agree to this is like getting turkeys to vote for Christmas. If the forum decided that Platform 3 should go, we may well see the passing of a number of contributors. At least in the short term this might mean a decline in activity. However, it's just possible that a great many more will be attracted back to the boards. New contributors are the lifeblood of any forum. This one has gone stale.

I do agree that something might be done to refresh things and encourage more contributions (and I for one don't enjoy politics - although the 'rogue' thread was recognised as problematic almost from the start). I'd support moves that didn't restrict the ability of members to comment on non-musical matters too much.

[Pabmusic]

Pabmusic and Sir Velo

It is quite common for many users of forums and similar online tools to appear to be passive. Many users will be readers only - so called lurkers, while others may only contribute occasionally. Trying to manage a forum for the benefit of lurkers, who, by definition will not contribute, or give any significant information as to why or how they use the forum, is going to be hard. It will be possible to track log-ins, for those who have taken the trouble to register, though where guest access is permitted tracking by log-ins is not going to work. It might be possible to track guest users by IP address, though is it really worth it? Why?

There will generally be a relatively small active community of forum members, and it may be possible to elicit opinions from those. Also, if there were proposals for change, or other management of a forum, it is just possible that the lurkers (silent majority?) might participate in a survey or vote, which could shape the way things go.

I would agree that the association with Radio 3 is now tenuous, and if there is a mission (heaven forbid that we should have a mission statement!) most of us have long forgotten what that might be.

As a place to hang out this is fine, and personally I have found it very useful and learnt a lot, mostly about music, but also about technical matters.

At this point, I wonder why I am writing this on a thread entitled "Old lady dies (see other post)". I suggest that if some of the active members want to discuss how the forum should be run, we do it on another thread. Maybe there are ways of getting the lurkers involved. Maybe we should have periodic votes on the way forward. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I'd be happy for the title to be changed in view of these happenings.

[Bryn]

Where there is discord, may we bring harmony

I take it there won't be any Schoenberg at the funeral then

[MrGongGong]

There seem IMV to be some rather odd conclusions in some of this

What some folk appear to be saying is that

IF for a moment we imagine this whole forum as part of a large city rather than a single destination.....if we go on the bus (or in Caliban's case in the Maserati ) to our concert of Brahms chamber music at the Wigmore Hall we happen to go past a rather noisy pub, inside of which there are 6 people having an argument about the price of cheese (we might also go past some rather "interesting" looking clubs in the arches at Vauxall on the way home ). The fact that in a place we don't choose to go to some people are doing something we find boring , tiresome or even offensive means that we should abandon the whole thing as it's "run it's course" or is becoming "tiresome" etc etc ? Surely if you don't like a scrap don't go to "Fight Club" BUT some people might like to , and they might also sometimes be the same folk who go to Choral Evensong , Death Metal gigs and are paid up members of a home counties golf club !!

The world (like music) is quite wide, some things I love others find dreadful and so on..........some people take their pleasure in being "offended" so find the closure of things a "success" as it validates their world view. I don't do football so when I watch TV I tend NOT to choose a channel that has it on NOR do i choose to be in discussions about it and the details...... though we loose much when we only talk about things within the narrow confines of our own "communities of interest". I have learnt loads by lurking and reading things from those totally immersed in musics that I have little knowledge of.

The CEC (Canadian Electroacoustic Community) newsgroup is the main place for discussions of that music in the world and many of the key "players" in that world are constant posters and commenters BUT it's a very dry (and often Vancouver centric ...... which is fine ) place where there are only really "arguments" every few years and they are usually (and interestingly ) about gender politics in relation to electroacoustic composition.

One persons "off topic" remark or conversation is anothers point of interest.......

though having said all that it really is FF's gig so whatever she decides is up to her and not really to do with spurious "democracy"

[Nick Armstrong]

At this point, I wonder why I am writing this on a thread entitled "Old lady dies (see other post)". I suggest that if some of the active members want to discuss how the forum should be run, we do it on another thread. Maybe there are ways of getting the lurkers involved. Maybe we should have periodic votes on the way forward. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I had the same thought as I imagine did most people.... I could start a new thread and move the "Whither the Forum?" type posts there but given the subject matter I'd prefer a refreshed FF to be able to structure the discussion as she thinks right.

[french frank]

Before I go through all the replies, just one further repetition:

I agree that this should be a place where people can agree and disagree, as the topic changes. Indeed, that is part of the forum's purpose: it was set up by FoR3 for Radio 3 listeners (primarily) and they are free e.g. to challenge and disagree with what Friends of Radio 3 itself stands for (and do!).

Yesterday, the collateral damage (two resignations) fell, not on forum members or the forum, but on Friends of Radio 3, blamed, much as the BBC was sometimes blamed (for what was sometimes considered by some to be too much of a negligent manner in running their messageboards), for what forum members were saying.

By saying that the forum isn't a small cosy group of friends, I meant that it's too big for that: there are groups within the group which are like-minded and enjoy each other's company and contributions. If we are to be a cohesive community we need to avoid deliberately treading on other people's toes just to annoy them.

I think S_A broached the subject here cautiously, so as not to attract too much attention, but the interested parties all seem to have moved here. I'll think about how we can satisfy the competing requirements of FoR3 and the various interest groups within the forum membership.

[Sydney Grew]

Actually the solution to problems of this kind is very simple, in my experience:

1) ban the use of the word "you"
2) ban reflections of any kind on other members
3) ban anything gruesome or offensive (in the opinion of the administrator)

Individual posts which contravene any of these rules to be simply and instantly zapped (removed) without further notice or discussion. People accept that. Works very well.

[Beef Oven]

Actually the solution to problems of this kind is very simple, in my experience:

1) ban the use of the word "you"
2) ban reflections of any kind on other members
3) ban anything gruesome or offensive (in the opinion of the administrator)

Individual posts which contravene any of these rules to be simply and instantly zapped (removed) without further notice or discussion. People accept that. Works very well.

But this wouldn't capture the 'low-voltage' sniping and popping that is very often the catalyst for the gruesome stuff.

[Bryn]

Regrettably, there appears to be a small coterie here who exemplify the old saw "thieves running around shouting 'stop theif'".

I did enjoy Syd's gruesome pun, however.

[eighthobstruction]

Some of the worst and most offense posts I have seen in 7 years of BBC and R3F have been on music threads....I'm sure we can all remember them.....and I am sure ff will remember RT who used to be really nasty and vile about FoR3....

Oddball and Sir Velo messages #130 & #135 <if I can use your messages to illustrate a point>

>>"Don't people have better things to do with their time" <<....might be construed by some to mean (that red rag to a bull -"get a life"

and Sir Velo ....you seem to create another red rag....'unsubstantiated evidence, and unsubstantiated concepts/info'....

MrGG....your analogy (the bus) is actually cough ahem a good one.....very apt....

Mr Grew....There is no chance that your 3) with the para below it can be inforced with the speed that would be required or a moderator sitting around waiting just in case.....a 'report' button system takes someones time....

There was a time last week on anotrher thread where a couple of my and another members posts JUST disappeared....and I actually commented elsewhere "no problem , thats Ok'....I am not precious about my posts in the hands of a moderator....

My goodness, I have just thought.....will Tony Halls first crisis be tonights episode of the 'NEWS QUIZ'

[Mr Pee]

My goodness, I have just thought.....will Tony Halls first crisis be tonights episode of the 'NEWS QUIZ'

And Brian Blessed is hosting Have I got News for You tonight as well- last time he did so it was one of the funniest half-hours I can remember. Should be worth watching!!

[Beef Oven]

Regrettably, there appears to be a small coterie here who exemplify the old saw "thieves running around shouting 'stop theif'".

I did enjoy Syd's gruesome pun, however.

Not helpful at all.