Old lady dies (see other post)

[eighthobstruction]

[QUOTE=Flosshilde;282428

I've re-sized them & it didn't change the size here, so I tried editing the post & pasted in the new link, which also didn't sem to have any effect [/QUOTE]

Yep story of my life Flosshilde,....story of my life....(I'm a big disgrace to the Aborigini race.....)

[Serial_Apologist]

In view of at least one member's angry resignation resulting from vigorous disagreements on the now deleted Thatcher Dies thread, one learns, do posters now feel that political discussion should be excluded from the forum?

I ask this in all sincerity, avoiding pre-empting further views being exchanged, since sensitivities would appear to have been raised beyond the usual knockabout stuff I see as the stuff of democracy and free speech my parents' generation and their antecedents fought to secure, and I'm not sure whether starting a separate thread at this time will be interpreted as pouring oil on flames.

[french frank]

S_A

There has long been a view that we should focus on arts and Radio 3, and close Platform 3. That would be popular and unpopular. Maybe something to consider in calmer times?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

to my mind it is not the subject matter but the behaviour and alas one person's knockabout is another's attack .... and there has been some rather unattractive mischief lately ...

seems to me that large chunks of the 'class' thread exemplified the discourse to which we might more often aspire ... thoughtful debate that maintained a good natured and well mannered discussion that was refreshingly open ended and non predictable .....


some recent posting has been absolutely unacceptable imv and no one here is getting paid to police the forum ...

i find this forum an excellent place to read and debate the arts and ideas, and i suspect it is actually one of the best such places on the planet ... ding dong arguments between the usual suspects rarely amuse or amount to much and are not imv about politics but simply mischievous poking and provocations ... i can see no reason to sacrifice this forum for those who seem so dedicated to such mischief ...

[MrGongGong]

Surely one of the wonderful things about the internet is that one can CHOOSE what one reads, watches and listens to ?

As Calum says one persons "knockabout" is another's "attack" ...... IMV some people take themselves (as opposed to what they do &/or listen to) far too seriously.

A "singsong and a scrap" can be a means of recreation BUT if this is not the place to have it then that's fine.
I'm not sure that a discussion that is solely confined to music in a "serious" and "sensible" way would be as interesting.

Like Don Cherry's music , these things can be inspirational, irritating, inexplicable and wonderful in turns..... but it would seem to me that that is a reflection of the world and people rather than something to regret.

BUT

It's FF's gig so if I don't choose what she does then that's fine also

[Serial_Apologist]

S_A

There has long been a view that we should focus on arts and Radio 3, and close Platform 3. That would be popular and unpopular. Maybe something to consider in calmer times?

Hmmm

The problem (as I see it ff) is that focus on arts and Radio 3 in the sense which I understand focus to imply would be artificially constricted.

It's in rough times such as these that forums of this kind can prove their invaluability, in my view. This forum has been invaluable for the likes of me in forcing me to face up to weaknesses in my own viewpoints; the rhythm and flow of debate allows one opportunities to go away, put the kettle on or undertake some unrelated activity to cool off, not permitted by accepted everyday protocols of face-to-face encounter, and while realising there are other discussion fora, I think many of us on whatever sides of our debates would miss the chance offered by this one to exchange even strongly opposed views; if some people are unable to stand the proverbial heat in the kitchen they will be no different in their reactions elsewhere than here, and in the end have to answer for their closed opinions to their own consciences.

I admit the abovesaid isn't probably very helpful!

[Serial_Apologist]

i find this forum an excellent place to read and debate the arts and ideas, and i suspect it is actually one of the best such places on the planet ... ding dong arguments between the usual suspects rarely amuse or amount to much and are not imv about politics but simply mischievous poking and provocations ... i can see no reason to sacrifice this forum for those who seem so dedicated to such mischief ...

Hear hear to the first part of what you've said, calum.

I suppose my enjoyment of a lot of the deliberate provocation is a matter of temperament and not taking oneself too seriously - I'd hate to see some of the protagonists, even those with whom I may strongly disagree, excluded. It could be me, next!

[MrGongGong]

- I'd hate to see some of the protagonists, even those with whom I may strongly disagree, excluded. It could be me, next!

First they came for the followers of polyphony ?
Then they came for the chromatic voice leaders ?
Then they came for the Serialists ?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

two points S_A

personal attacks and name calling prove nowt and are uninteresting unless very witty and good natured

some posters are being seriously provocative or mischievous ... you may not have noticed but the 'let's also remember' thread about Neruda and Jarra in '73 has gone; i deleted it last night to remove an appalling post with deeply offensive comment in it ... it just could not be left on the forum ... the place of these two artists and music and poetry in the political developments in South America would be a very interesting topic ... but not if it is going to be swamped by the toxic mischief of some posters ... and it is never new mischief, just the same old same old endlessly played out ... there is no value in that and some harm to our collective reputation and that of the For R3 platform we rely on

[Julien Sorel]

In view of at least one member's angry resignation resulting from vigorous disagreements on the now deleted Thatcher Dies thread, one learns, do posters now feel that political discussion should be excluded from the forum?

I ask this in all sincerity, avoiding pre-empting further views being exchanged, since sensitivities would appear to have been raised beyond the usual knockabout stuff I see as the stuff of democracy and free speech my parents' generation and their antecedents fought to secure, and I'm not sure whether starting a separate thread at this time will be interpreted as pouring oil on flames.

My feeling is that's really for FOR3 to decide (I'm a member of FOR3, but a very passive one I'm afraid), since FOR3 has to mantain the delicate balance of this forum and its association with / detachment from FOR3. My feeling about the Thatcher thread, I'm afraid, is that it's a bit rich people who will only accept eulogies accusing other people of being appalling, disgraceful and hypocritical. I am, for what it's worth, very angry that a state funeral has been decided on by a political clique and if anyone objects they are treated like they are some kind of mass murderer.

If the forum remit was Radio 3 then the volume of posts would drop I suspect to a fraction of those the forum now receives (that may be no bad thing, of course). Most of the music discussions tend to revolve around CDs and performers / favourite interpretations of favourite composers with no particular connection to an actual R3 programme. I listen to R3 very little, because the evening concerts rarely interest me enough to not do something else and Hear & Now has been dumbed down chronically (IMO).

One thing needs to be said: there's no reason on earth why french frank should be expected to deal with the stresses of this place and I strongly think she shouldn't do so. I'm sorry if that's overstated, but looking at this afternoon's events brings it home forcefully to me.

I won't post on Platform 3 again, for that reason. I can't help feel, as I said, that a perfectly reasonable argument has been silenced because some members assume their sensibilities to be the only sensibilities under the sun. But ff was clearly left with little choice. If I have anything to offer the rest of the forum I will, but little of it will be R3 related (for the reason I've already given).

[Beef Oven]

My feeling is that's really for FOR3 to decide (I'm a member of FOR3, but a very passive one I'm afraid), since FOR3 has to mantain the delicate balance of this forum and its association with / detachment from FOR3. My feeling about the Thatcher thread, I'm afraid, is that it's a bit rich people who will only accept eulogies accusing other people of being appalling, disgraceful and hypocritical. I am, for what it's worth, very angry that a state funeral has been decided on by a political clique and if anyone objects they are treated like they are some kind of mass murderer.

If the forum remit was Radio 3 then the volume of posts would drop I suspect to a fraction of those the forum now receives (that may be no bad thing, of course). Most of the music discussions tend to revolve around CDs and performers / favourite interpretations of favourite composers with no particular connection to an actual R3 programme. I listen to R3 very little, because the evening concerts rarely interest me enough to not do something else and Hear & Now has been dumbed down chronically (IMO).

One thing needs to be said: there's no reason on earth why french frank should be expected to deal with the stresses of this place and I strongly think she shouldn't do so. I'm sorry if that's overstated, but looking at this afternoon's events brings it home forcefully to me.

I won't post on Platform 3 again, for that reason. I can't help feel, as I said, that a perfectly reasonable argument has been silenced because some members assume their sensibilities to be the only sensibilities under the sun. But ff was clearly left with little choice. If I have anything to offer the rest of the forum I will, but little of it will be R3 related (for the reason I've already given).

I would hope that you might reconsider about posting on here, you add value and have really made me think about a lot of things a bit differently. I agree with almost nothing that you post, but that is beside the point!

Plus, I really don't understand why you need to take that measure anyway.

Regards

BO

[MrGongGong]

My feeling is that's really for FOR3 to decide (I'm a member of FOR3, but a very passive one I'm afraid), since FOR3 has to mantain the delicate balance of this forum and its association with / detachment from FOR3. My feeling about the Thatcher thread, I'm afraid, is that it's a bit rich people who will only accept eulogies accusing other people of being appalling, disgraceful and hypocritical. I am, for what it's worth, very angry that a state funeral has been decided on by a political clique and if anyone objects they are treated like they are some kind of mass murderer.

If the forum remit was Radio 3 then the volume of posts would drop I suspect to a fraction of those the forum now receives (that may be no bad thing, of course). Most of the music discussions tend to revolve around CDs and performers / favourite interpretations of favourite composers with no particular connection to an actual R3 programme. I listen to R3 very little, because the evening concerts rarely interest me enough to not do something else and Hear & Now has been dumbed down chronically (IMO).

One thing needs to be said: there's no reason on earth why french frank should be expected to deal with the stresses of this place and I strongly think she shouldn't do so. I'm sorry if that's overstated, but looking at this afternoon's events brings it home forcefully to me.

I won't post on Platform 3 again, for that reason. I can't help feel, as I said, that a perfectly reasonable argument has been silenced because some members assume their sensibilities to be the only sensibilities under the sun. But ff was clearly left with little choice. If I have anything to offer the rest of the forum I will, but little of it will be R3 related (for the reason I've already given).

I think some "sensibilities" are seen to be more "correct" than others ......... and as (the recently disgraced what an idiot !) mr Lydon said
"anger is an energy" which is sometimes the only response

[Sir Velo]

On the other hand, closure of Platform 3 may well lead to a revival of interest from the silent majority of forum members in posting on Radio 3 programming and direction, and other matters musical. It cannot have escaped the attention of anyone here that there are well over 1,000 members of the forum, of whom only a tiny percentage are currently active.

It would be salutary to ask the opinion of absentee members why they no longer actively contribute to the forum. Could it be there is a perception that there is a coterie which has come to dominate this forum and has made it an extremely unpleasant place? I, myself, have contributed far less recently due to the dwindling number of threads and posts on radio 3 and music related topics. Sadly, I cannot see that situation changing anytime soon, unless some form of strong, decisive action is taken.

[Beef Oven]

On the other hand, closure of Platform 3 may well lead to a revival of interest from the silent majority of forum members in posting on Radio 3 programming and direction, and other matters musical. It cannot have escaped the attention of anyone here that there are well over 1,000 members of the forum, of which only a tiny percentage are currently active.

It would be salutary to ask the opinion of absentee members why they no longer actively contribute to the forum. Could it be there is a perception that there is a coterie which has come to dominate this forum and has made it an extremely unpleasant place? I, myself, have contributed far less recently due to the dwindling number of threads and posts on radio 3 and music related topics. Sadly, I cannot see that situation changing anytime soon.

I imagine that on balance you are right. But surely the 'problem' is confined to non-musical/R3 threads. The musical/R3 threads go very well.

Isn't it about ignoring threads and/or people that you know will be toxic? And perhaps cosmetically splitting the site so that such discrimination is made easier.

[aeolium]

If the forum remit was Radio 3 then the volume of posts would drop I suspect to a fraction of those the forum now receives (that may be no bad thing, of course). Most of the music discussions tend to revolve around CDs and performers / favourite interpretations of favourite composers with no particular connection to an actual R3 programme.

I agree with this and I think it's unfortunately the case that much of the discussion about actual R3 programmes - at least outside the Proms season - is about their inadequacy. I suspect many of the contributors to the forum (like me) listen increasingly rarely to R3 and much more to their own CDs or other radio stations on the internet. This does make it difficult to sustain forum discussions where there is not more general interest, hence the proliferation of threads on Platform 3.

I still think it would be a pity to lose a forum where music, the arts and ideas (and just general 'stuff') can be discussed for the most part in a way which allows for the free and civilised exchange of opinion. But threads about contemporary politics do tend to degenerate mainly because a few are unable to stick to the House Rules and are also unable to argue ad rem rather than ad hominem.

One thing needs to be said: there's no reason on earth why french frank should be expected to deal with the stresses of this place and I strongly think she shouldn't do so.

I agree, and if this means the end of Platform 3, or indeed the forum as a whole, then so be it.