Have I seen The New Jerusalem?

[Guest]

Just back from a UKIP do which I attended out of curiosity.

Nigel Farrage.

Messianic!

[MrGongGong]

Just back from a UKIP do which I attended out of curiosity.

Nigel Farrage.

Messianic!

Bonkers
Dangerous
Deranged
Delusional

[ahinton]

Just back from a UKIP do which I attended out of curiosity.

Nigel Farrage.

Messianic!

Which particular Messiaen work did you have in mind when attaching that descriptor to your experience of Mr Farage (with just one 'r', by the way, so as to distinguish him from 'barrage', which might otherwise be difficult)? Des Étoiles aux Canyons, peut-être? (I'm trying to suppress Un Sourire as I write this)...

[Serial_Apologist]

Which particular Messiaen work did you have in mind when attaching that descriptor to your experience of Mr Farage (with just one 'r', by the way, so as to distinguish him from 'barrage', which might otherwise be difficult)? Des Étoiles aux Canyons, peut-être? (I'm trying to suppress Un Sourire as I write this)...

I'd like to toss him off - for the etoiles to the canyons

[Cornet IV]

Which particular Messiaen work did you have in mind when attaching that descriptor to your experience of Mr Farage (with just one 'r', by the way, so as to distinguish him from 'barrage', which might otherwise be difficult)? Des Étoiles aux Canyons, peut-être? (I'm trying to suppress Un Sourire as I write this)...

Oh dear - it must have been a subconscious desire to avoid 'garage' (the alternative pronunciation) which caused the additional 'r'.

However, any thoughts of Messiaen or his works were completely absent from my mind, I'm afraid. No doubt I shall receive some flak for being of a supposed parochial disposition but I am of the view that it all came to an end in 1750 and whilst I acknowledge that 19th century France did produce organ works of merit, I've never felt constrained to extend this view much beyond Frank and Saint-Saens. But Les sourires, suppressed or otherwise, notwithstanding, it has to be accepted that Mr F is a fellow of considerable charisma, a charisma magnified by the blandness of the muppets on the current political stage and that he does advance an alternative perspective which is neither bonkers, deranged nor delusional although it might well be dangerous for some.

Anyway, I liked the chap but whether sufficiently to be prised from the tenets espoused by the successors to Lord Sutch, I suppose only time and the next election will tell.

[Flosshilde]

Mr F is a fellow of considerable charisma,

So was Mr Hitler, I believe. Not that I'm suggesting that Mr F is anything like Mr H, but charismatic people can be dangerous.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'd like to toss him off - for the etoiles to the canyons

[ahinton]

whilst I acknowledge that 19th century France did produce organ works of merit, I've never felt constrained to extend this view much beyond Frank and Saint-Saens.

Presuming you to mean César Franck here, I don't think France can take much credit for his work, realy...

But Les sourires, suppressed or otherwise, notwithstanding, it has to be accepted that Mr F is a fellow of considerable charisma, a charisma magnified by the blandness of the muppets on the current political stage and that he does advance an alternative perspective which is neither bonkers, deranged nor delusional although it might well be dangerous for some.

I submit that it takes rather more than mere muppets to bring about the kinds of mayhem that we see happening today but, perhaps more importantly, I don't see NF and his followers advancing anything of the kind, since the entire movements seems to be very largely a single agenda one rather than a party waiting in governmental wings; it currently has no seats in either house and, following the next General Election, I will be surprised it it attains more than a handful, if indeed any at all.

Anyway, I liked the chap but whether sufficiently to be prised from the tenets espoused by the successors to Lord Sutch, I suppose only time and the next election will tell.

Indeed - and each to his/her own allegiances; somehow, I suspect that the present lot might not go to full term...

[Julien Sorel]

Anyway, I liked the chap but whether sufficiently to be prised from the tenets espoused by the successors to Lord Sutch, I suppose only time and the next election will tell.

Great idea. You could vote for a party that says of climate change "our conclusion is that there probably isn’t a problem ...." and shows just how unlike Mr Griffin and his mates it is by sticking up an anti-immigration poster in Levenshulme which, yes, has a large immigrant population.

But perhaps you'd like that chap Griffin, too.

Oh: UKIP also propose a 40% increase in defence spending together with tax cuts. So presumably if it's possible to squeeze the poor more than the Coalition has UKIP will do it. Or just sell off the profitable bits of the NHS even quicker.

[Mr Pee]

So was Mr Hitler, I believe. Not that I'm suggesting that Mr F is anything like Mr H, but charismatic people can be dangerous.

You just did.

[Mr Pee]

Great idea. You could vote for a party that says of climate change "our conclusion is that there probably isn’t a problem ...."

Which is a view many scientists share these days.

and shows just how unlike Mr Griffin and his mates it is by sticking up an anti-immigration poster in Levenshulme which, yes, has a large immigrant population.

Even the "mainstream" parties now accept that immigration has been allowed to get out of hand, as do many immigrants themselves. If you think that political parties should not campaign on certain issues in the very areas where those issues are most relevant, then there wouldn't be much point in campaigning about anything.

But perhaps you'd like that chap Griffin, too.

Rather like Flossie's mention of Hitler, comparing Farage to Griffin is cheap, predictable, and irrelevant.

Oh: UKIP also propose a 40% increase in defence spending together with tax cuts. So presumably if it's possible to squeeze the poor more than the Coalition has UKIP will do it. Or just sell off the profitable bits of the NHS even quicker.

There is no doubt that the armed forces have been cut to the point of no return since the end of the cold war- and this includes poor pay, well below police and other emergency services, and accomodation, some of which is barely fit for human habitation. I have stayed in RAF single accomodation blocks which were dirty, vermin infested, one which had tree branches poking through the walls, and which- to save money- would sometimes have no heating in the winter, as well as a hot water system that was about as reliable as a Lib Dem manifesto. It was not unknown to go for weeks at a time without a hot shower.

Of course, if we weren't ploughing billions of pounds into the corrupt and nearly bankrupt EU, perhaps we would be able to spend it on more useful areas. Such as defence and tax cuts.

[MrGongGong]

Oh: UKIP also propose a 40% increase in defence spending together with tax cuts. So presumably if it's possible to squeeze the poor more than the Coalition has UKIP will do it. Or just sell off the profitable bits of the NHS even quicker.

They have a really interesting education policy which can be found on their website
I thought that if I typed "EDUCATION" (and a number of variants) into the SEARCH box
I would be able to see what their policy was .......... and here it is


404 not found

so that's clear then

I don't relish a war with Iceland either ..............

This might be an interesting idea that the Irish and French might have something to say about
"Establish an ‘Exclusive Economic Zone’ extending 200 nautical miles from the UK’s coastline over which the UK exerts total control"

So that's the siege of Dublin then .............no wonder they want to spend so much on the armed forces

Which is a view many scientists share these days.

All depends on what you mean by "many"
and who they are
where they are from etc etc etc

You can probably find some actors in white coats in "Laboratoire Garnier" who will tell you that your Chi needs to be aligned to face the rising sun...... but I'm not sure that I would trust what they say.

[Julien Sorel]

Rather like Flossie's mention of Hitler, comparing Farage to Griffin is cheap, predictable, and irrelevant.

Predictable because it's entirely relevant, perhaps. Anyway I thought you supported Griffin's party?

Of course, if we weren't ploughing billions of pounds into the corrupt and nearly bankrupt EU, perhaps we would be able to spend it on more useful areas. Such as defence and tax cuts.

Or reversing the current vicious assault on the poorest and weakest in society, supporting the NHS, supporting low income sixth formers in state schools, abolishing student tuition fees, and maybe even spending a bit of money on experimental music, literature, art, cinema, theatre. Backing non-profit making scientific research. And taking climate change seriously, as do most scientists.

[ahinton]

Which is a view many scientists share these days.

I'm not at all sure about the "many", but those who do take such a view tend not to include in it the question of for whom they believe that "there probably isn't a problem". There is climate change. Fact. There always has been. Fact. It's getting more extreme and frequent of late. Fact. Some of it is naturally occurring. Fact. Some is probably caused or exacerbated by the kinds of human activity which could be wound down with few if any long-term sacrifices for humanity. Fact.

Even the "mainstream" parties now accept that immigration has been allowed to get out of hand, as do many immigrants themselves. If you think that political parties should not campaign on certain issues in the very areas where those issues are most relevant, then there wouldn't be much point in campaigning about anything.

But what is "out of hand" and how do you define it? If you were to define it by setting a maximum number of legal immigrants to be allowed to be in any country at any one time, you would not ensure that some areas were not populated by immigrant majorities unless you were able to create additional laws to determine who, immigrant or otherwise, should live and work where.

Rather like Flossie's mention of Hitler, comparing Farage to Griffin is cheap, predictable, and irrelevant.

And also impossible. And rather silly, since Hitler wanted an united Europe of a sort that suited him...

There is no doubt that the armed forces have been cut to the point of no return since the end of the cold war- and this includes poor pay, well below police and other emergency services, and accomodation, some of which is barely fit for human habitation. I have stayed in RAF single accomodation blocks which were dirty, vermin infested, one which had tree branches poking through the walls, and which- to save money- would sometimes have no heating in the winter, as well as a hot water system that was about as reliable as a Lib Dem manifesto. It was not unknown to go for weeks at a time without a hot shower.

Of course, if we weren't ploughing billions of pounds into the corrupt and nearly bankrupt EU, perhaps we would be able to spend it on more useful areas. Such as defence and tax cuts.

We'd be ploughing it into more homespun corruptions instead - but where I do agree with you is that there need to be immense cuts in defence expenditure as well as far greater eficiencies in procurement, management, &c. within what remains of the defence industry after they have been implemented.

[scottycelt]

Bonkers
Dangerous
Deranged
Delusional

I think the first three are a bit OTT, Mr GG, but I certainly agree with the last. He can be extremely offensive probably best illustrated by his appalling personal attack on the wholly inoffensive van Rompuy in the European Parliament. As a 'ranter and raver' he has only probably been exceeded in recent times by Ian Paisley Snr and Denis Skinner.

He is the Little Englander of all Little Englanders which is why he is their leader. He seems to have no serious rivals in the Party who can rabble-rouse the troops and in that (if only that) he shares a striking similarity to Alex Salmond, leader of the SNP.

Hopefully both Farage and his Party will have been shunted once again to the fringes of UK politics after the next General Election. Surely that is their proper place given the stark reality of a globalised world order.

That is my fervent hope, at any rate.