Class

[Flosshilde]

the children, six of whom are now dead thanks to that lifestyle.

NO scotty - I thought you had more understanding than that. The six children died because Philpotts was a sociopathic control freak. He forced the women ha was living with to pay their pay (one was working; I'm not sure if both were) and benefits into his bank account. The fire was planned because he couldn't stand the fact that his ex-girlfriend had custody of their children & he wanted to frame her as committing an arson attack on his house. The children died purely because he wanted to control women.

[John Wright]

If you google you'll find out Mr Bennett, from Hunwick, County Durham, said he was paid housing benefit and working tax credit, and earned around £200 a month from his stall, giving him a total monthly income of £633. He pays £400 in rent per month and around £176 in utility bills, but also pays for a landline, mobile phone and Sky with broadband.
He now claims his bills leave him with £23 a month. Later he said he had a van, so how does he put fuel in it? Recently he tweeted about his losses at poker....

So on the one hand seems like Mr Bennett DOESN'T live/feed on £53 a week.
On the other hand, I reckon IDS could feed himself for a week on £53, but could he do that for a month?

[Flosshilde]

While we're talking about welfare benefits (a long way & very different from class) the government keep saying that they want to make work 'more attractive' (presumably they mean financially). They needn't reduce benefits to do that - simply ensure that the minimum wage is increased to the living wage. In Nov 2012 The former was 6.19 for those aged over 21, & the latter £8.55 an hour in London and £7.45 an hour in the rest of the UK. Even the Daily Telegraph thinks it's a good idea -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9808681/A-living-wage-or-a-much-higher-minimum-wage-is-worth-paying.html

The government's claim that they want to make work more attractive by reducing benefits ignores the fact that a large number of people receiving benefits are already working. Mind you, if they are in part-time work & aren't making enough effort (in the government's eyes) to increase their hours then the govt's pet think-tank are suggesting that their benefits should be cut.

[eighthobstruction]

What a dogs dinner JW....one wonders how Beeb researcher chose this person....when it couldn't have been that difficult to get a more average person....

....still I did get to hear Today, which missed due to a Bank Holiday sleep in....

[scottycelt]

NO scotty - I thought you had more understanding than that. The six children died because Philpotts was a sociopathic control freak. He forced the women ha was living with to pay their pay (one was working; I'm not sure if both were) and benefits into his bank account. The fire was planned because he couldn't stand the fact that his ex-girlfriend had custody of their children & he wanted to frame her as committing an arson attack on his house. The children died purely because he wanted to control women.

You should know by now that I'm not interested in feminist/partisan politics, Flossie. One of these women was found guilty and has now been sentenced by the judge (a woman) to 17 years for the crime. Six children have died.

The fact is that Philpotts lifestyle and that of his women were supported by the State.

I don't profess to know the answer myself but surely there has to be a more moral welfare system than this?

[Beef Oven]

No, I don't think that is it at all....i did not hear feature with the market trader on it BUT, my take is - that £53 isn't BEFORE bills....so the £53 isn't just to spend.....I think the trader got £71 job seekers allowance from which a bedroom tax was taken off £13.50 + his Council Tax contribution £6.50, which gives £53.....he still has his bills to pay and if they anything like mine £20 gas elec/£5 phone min, more like £10 if has mobile and Broadband....+ TV license £2.50....he may have other costs he is on contract to before he was make unemployed (or indeed a car , which he will need to keep if he is to be reemployable)....I reckon he will end up with £10-15 for food, clothes, shoe and travel ...if he's lucky....

It was what he said. Can't find the original BBC news item where he is quoted, but here's something:

"Today’s politics is brought to you by the number 53. That’s the amount, in pounds per week, that Iain Duncan Smith is being challenged to live on – and it came from a Today Programme interview with a market trader, David Bennett, who said that he’s struggling to get by now that his benefits have been cut. Mr Bennett’s incomings, it emerged, include around £50 a week from his stall, £57 in housing benefit, and some money from working tax credits, but when his rent and bills are taken into account he’s left with that £53 a week.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/2013/04/the-curious-case-of-david-bennett-and-his-53-a-week.html

[eighthobstruction]

AsI say a dogs dinner, I don't think we'll ever get an accurate number as they couldn't have picked a more untypical person....I gave a link #270 and timing....

....pretty typical from the point of view of the miserable lives some people live, even if they try hard to pay their own way and try to strive....just because you strive doesn't mean you succeed or even break even....

2hrs 33sec in....http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ay_01_04_2013/

[Beef Oven]

AsI say a dogs dinner, I don't think we'll ever get an accurate number as they couldn't have picked a more untypical person....I gave a link #270 and timing....

....pretty typical from the point of view of the miserable lives some people live, even if they try hard to pay their own way and try to strive....just because you strive doesn't mean you succeed or even break even....

Egg wetter gree, it is indeed a hard life.

[ahinton]

You should know by now that I'm not interested in feminist/partisan politics, Flossie. One of these women was found guilty and has now been sentenced by the judge (a woman) to 17 years for the crime. Six children have died.

The fact is that Philpotts lifestyle and that of his women were supported by the State.

I don't profess to know the answer myself but surely there has to be a more moral welfare system than this?

Scotty, you are, most dismayingly, falling into the same trap as some others are doing by appearing - even if unwittingly and unintentionally - to blame the very existence of the state financial benefits system for some part of all parts of the crime committed by Mick Philpott despite the fact that the judge who convicted and later sentenced him having made not a single reference to state benefits as a related, let alone contributory, factor; please don't take my word for this - read it for yourself at http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ap...-judge-remarks.

If I am to take you at your word, please tell me how you would go about ensuring that such lifestyles were never again to be supported by the state (on the assumption that it is somehow the state's fault that it paid benefits to this criminal) - and, when doing so, please be sure to mark out all the relevant parameters that you would seek to put forward as disqualifying ones for continued receipt of benefits to which the recipient might otherwise be legitimately entitled and your reasons for recommending such disqualifications - and (sorry!) also some idea of how you think that society would be better off a a consequence of having a taxpayer-funded raft of lifestyle snoopers charged with investigating all benefit recipients, including those on state retirement benefit, at all times for the purpose of trying to ensure that none of their actions might at any time risk conflicting with their entitlements to receive state benefits of any kind.

Do you really think that Philpott would not have done what he did had it not been for his relationship with the state benefit system and, ergo, that this system accordingly somehow contrived to contribute to the formation of him into a criminal able to commit the terrible and terrifying crimes for which he has now been convicted and sentenced?

[ahinton]

It was what he said. Can't find the original BBC news item where he is quoted, but here's something:

"Today’s politics is brought to you by the number 53. That’s the amount, in pounds per week, that Iain Duncan Smith is being challenged to live on – and it came from a Today Programme interview with a market trader, David Bennett, who said that he’s struggling to get by now that his benefits have been cut. Mr Bennett’s incomings, it emerged, include around £50 a week from his stall, £57 in housing benefit, and some money from working tax credits, but when his rent and bills are taken into account he’s left with that £53 a week.

It has clearly been a most embarrassing gaffe on the part of Mr Duncan Smith to have let slip the off-the-cuff remark on this that he did and to have it heard to by millions of Today listeners; if he could manage (and, let's face it, we're talking here only about him personally, not any members of his family as might otherwise expect to be included in this) on £53 per minute I'd be somewhat surprised. OK, we can all make silly gaffes on the spur and in the heat of the moment and he no doubt regrets his now, but it's not helped anyone at all and its effect has arguably been gravely exacerbated by Mr Osborne's subsequent tacky and grossly ill-judged remarks about Philpott vis-à-vis the state benefits system that must have seriously aggrieved many of those on state retirement benefit among a host of other understandably dismayed listeners thereto.

[MrGongGong]

I'm prepared (I know it's a great hardship but someone has to do it )
to prove that I can survive on only £50 worth of wine and oysters a week
(assuming that everything else is paid for ..........)
I guess i'll have to economise on the vintage but i'm sure it's possible

[Beef Oven]

I'm prepared (I know it's a great hardship but someone has to do it )
to prove that I can survive on only £50 worth of wine and oysters a week
(assuming that everything else is paid for ..........)
I guess i'll have to economise on the vintage but i'm sure it's possible

Count me in, I'm gonna live on £53 for the rest of the week.

[MrGongGong]

Count me in, I'm gonna live on £53 for the rest of the week.

Come off it, you spend more than that on CD's

[ahinton]

Count me in, I'm gonna live on £53 for the rest of the week.

There's only three whole days of this week left, actually, but that's hardly the point; you are not Mr Duncan Smith and therefore have absolutely no need to associate yourself with his ill-considered remark or the sheer stupidity that prompted it.

[eighthobstruction]

There's great deal of difference in regard to Benefit calculations now using the Retail Price Index as a base rather than the Consumer Price Index.....