Class

[mangerton]

wasn't it central to the court case as motive for the fire ?
he stood to lose £1,000 per month when the girlfriend moved out with five of the children and the fire was going to be blamed on her.
all the benefits and tax credits for both women and all the children having been given to him

That figure has been quoted, but the rates are Child Tax Credit (£2690 pa, £2720 from tomorrow) and Child Benefit (£696.80 pa), which is £3386.80 per child, which for five children is over £1400 per month. And of course that's all tax free. Then there's free school meals, help with housing, and Income Support (£56 per week, possibly more) for the adults.

Please note, I am not making any comment about these benefits, just stating facts.

Edit: Anna is correct.

a dangerous sociopath who had indeed benefitted from the welfare system but it did not make him into the man he was.

He didn't do it for the money, but I'm sure he enjoyed the benefits it brought.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

.... most large benefit settlements are because of children, too easily forgotten ...

it is not only my religion that stops me reading the Murdoch Press, their pay-wall has a more immediate deterrent effect ...

a question for Gideon .... did Fred the Shred [and with any luck he will lose the new court case] do what he did because of the banking system? if he did should we abolish it? or was he just a greedy manipulative crook who we should lock up for ever and a day in a leaky caravan on Canvey Island?

IDS should not be challenged to live on £53 per week for a week or so ... that is a gimmick, rather he, Cameron Gideon et al should be sentenced to live on £53 in perpetuity ... along with all their banker friends in caravans on Canvey Island .... and they will never ever come up with anything as good as this

[anotherbob]

....IDS should not be challenged to live on £53 per week for a week or so ... that is a gimmick, rather he, Cameron Gideon et al should be sentenced to live on £53 in perpetuity ... along with all their banker friends in caravans on Canvey Island .... and they will never ever come up with anything as good as this

So true...

[scottycelt]

Like so many others, this whole issue of Welfare Benefits is bedevilled by politics.

Surely the main point here is not that Philpott was on benefits but more on the colossal amounts he and his women received. If the reports are true then between them they raked in £68,000 pa of which only £14,000 pa came from the women's wages.

There are millions of workers who earn less than the average £25,000 pa in this country ... indeed many a lot less ... who paid tax to keep the likes of Philpott and his women going in their bizarre lifestyle.

Of course the welfare money was really meant for the children, six of whom are now dead thanks to that lifestyle. I think it is not only justifiable but a duty to kids who might find themselves in similar peril in the future that such matters are discussed openly.

I read recently that even in liberal Sweden there would have been no question of Philpott and his women receiving any welfare money. The kids would simply have been taken into care for their own interests and safety.

There are no easy answers here. Welfare is necessary for the genuinely under-privileged and vulnerable but so is basic fairness for taxpayers who have to foot the bill.

[teamsaint]

.... most large benefit settlements are because of children, too easily forgotten ...

it is not only my religion that stops me reading the Murdoch Press, their pay-wall has a more immediate deterrent effect ...

a question for Gideon .... did Fred the Shred [and with any luck he will lose the new court case] do what he did because of the banking system? if he did should we abolish it? or was he just a greedy manipulative crook who we should lock up for ever and a day in a leaky caravan on Canvey Island?

IDS should not be challenged to live on £53 per week for a week or so ... that is a gimmick, rather he, Cameron Gideon et al should be sentenced to live on £53 in perpetuity ... along with all their banker friends in caravans on Canvey Island .... and they will never ever come up with anything as good as this

Apart from the fact that I don't think the people of Canvey deserve such undesirable neighbours, i completely agree.
The Feelgoods restore ones faith, the likes of IDS chip away at it.... They did it Right....

[Beef Oven]

Apart from the fact that I don't think the people of Canvey deserve such undesirable neighbours, i completely agree.
The Feelgoods restore ones faith, the likes of IDS chip away at it.... They did it Right....

IDS was really only saying that if he had to (live on £53 a week after bills etc, as that bloke said was his situation) he would. And Whatever think of the bloke, he is a very able man, and would probably bring it off.

I reckon I could live on £53 a week after bills. Stilton aint all it's cracked up to be and spotify means I wouldn't need to spend £300 a month on CDs

[mangerton]

they will never ever come up with anything as good as this

They certainly won't. Excellent stuff.

[teamsaint]

IDS was really only saying that if he had to (live on £53 a week after bills etc, as that bloke said was his situation) he would. And Whatever think of the bloke, he is a very able man, and would probably bring it off.

I reckon I could live on £53 a week after bills. Stilton aint all it's cracked up to be and spotify means I wouldn't need to spend £300 a month on CDs

you are no doubt a resourceful fellow....and anyway, its just a bus ride on oyster card down to Canvey for you, isn't it, so you are saving already...

I reckon could live on £53 a week..in fact with kids at Uni, (a luxury I know !)its pretty much a way of life....

Remind me of IDS's talents and life experience again, if you would be so kind, Mr Oven.....

[mercia]

live on £53 a week after bills etc

depends rather what we mean by "bills etc." - what exactly is this £53 supposed to cover ?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the habitations at bottom right, just next to the field of LPG Storage should do nicely ...

[Beef Oven]

depends rather what we mean by "bills etc." - what exactly is this £53 supposed to cover ?

The self-employed trader did not publish his accounts as such. He said that after he'd paid out for his bills, all he was left with was £53. On the balance of probabilities, this would be his disposable income. IDS reckons that, if he had to, after bills, he could get by on £227 disposable income per calender month. I reckon I could too (although I wouldn't let too many calendar months go by before I took steps to increase my income in some way).

[mangerton]

depends rather what we mean by "bills etc." - what exactly is this £53 supposed to cover ?

Nobody (until now) mentioned "after bills". As Professor Joad - and mercia - said, "it all depends what you mean by.....". Some clarification is called for, I think.

[eighthobstruction]

No, I don't think that is it at all....i did not hear feature with the market trader on it BUT, my take is - that £53 isn't BEFORE bills....so the £53 isn't just to spend.....I think the trader got £71 job seekers allowance from which a bedroom tax was taken off £13.50 + his Council Tax contribution £6.50, which gives £53.....he still has his bills to pay and if they anything like mine £20 gas elec/£5 phone min, more like £10 if has mobile and Broadband....+ TV license £2.50....he may have other costs he is on contract to before he was make unemployed (or indeed a car , which he will need to keep if he is to be reemployable)....I reckon he will end up with £10-15 for food, clothes, shoe and travel ...if he's lucky....

[scottycelt]

No, I don't think that is it at all....i did not hear feature with the market trader on it BUT, my take is - that £53 isn't BEFORE bills....so the £53 isn't just to spend.....I think the trader got £71 job seekers allowance from which a bedroom tax was taken off £13.50 + his Council Tax contribution £6.50, which gives £53.....he still has his bills to pay and if they anything like mine £20 gas elec/£5 phone min, more like £10 if has mobile and Broadband....+ TV license £2.50....he may have other costs he is on contract to before he was make unemployed (or indeed a car , which he will need to keep if he is to be reemployable)....I reckon he will end up with £10-15 for food, clothes, shoe and travel ...if he's lucky....

He claims he is a market trader, 8th ... doesn't he earn anything at all from that? And there's more ...

Here is the other side to this political story. As ever. And it transpires Mr Bennett is partial to the occasional flutter, and certainly doesn't look to me like he's starving!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9968757/Tory-MP-complains-to-the-BBC-about-market-trader-who-challenged-IDS-on-benefits.html

Politics, politics, politics ...

[eighthobstruction]

I have just listened to the feature on Today (2hr33min -)http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ay_01_04_2013/

The mans circumstances are too complicated to set out....as he has children ar school but is separated and children live with mother. BUT, he is 51, has worked in the credit industry since 17 years....was made red' 3 years ago....when worked as a s/e market trader but due to recession and bad weather he does not make much profit, and therefore becomes able to obtain certain benefits....as s/e he worked and make only £2700 profit over 14mths for a 50-70 hours a week....The upshot is, that it is roughly as I said above , that being £53 before bills...