Class

[eighthobstruction]

That's a good mornings work for you CdeJ....wish I had time and nous to take that all in and follow the links....

>>>there is an argument against using abstract concepts such as "class" to understand the social world, it does illuminate, but it ignores the specifics and the historical development and there is plenty that can be said about class relationships that are specific in their nature and history to the British<<<...

....very much so....this Class thread is an anachronism....searching old and new views of Class will be an aid to furthering questions to how live and be in 2013 but the end product in my view would be that class is only 10% of the answer....a much better system (which there must be somewhere surely, or why are people given all these research grants) that reflects the fragmentation of society into shards of inequality and equality....

[Beef Oven]

It's too early in the morning for X-rays of Homer Simpson's head as far as I'm concerned... I don't quite know what kind of answer that's supposed to be, but it seems to me that someone who would rate (presumably his own) "real life experience" as a more valid way to look at economic social mobility than an extensively researched article, indeed dismissing the latter as "pseudo-social science" (presumably without looking at the article), is hardly in a position to accuse anyone else of denying any evidence that "doesn't fit in" with their "world view".

Not having read Politics and Philosophy I hadn't come across such an explicit statement of Badiou's idea that, even though a class analysis of contemporary society would (if it was to be systematic and realistic) follow the structure proposed by Marx, and even though economic class as conceived by Marx is still central to the (dys)functioning of society, the solution to its inequalities needs to go "beyond" class politics. This seems to be an idea that various others, in the years since Badiou's book, are moving towards (Harvey and Graeber for example).

I most certainly do rate real life experience (not sure why you put it in inverted commas) above an extensively researched article.

Having read Philosophy and Politics (and Economics) at University I am familiar with the people you list and they are fine as far as they go.

Getting back on topic, social mobilty is a real thing and means much to many people's lives. It is a shame that we are more comfortable putting it in an academic context and poo-pooing people's real life experience (I acknowledge that the way I put it did not help, but I do have a rather large chip on my shoulder).

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i confess to my own chip and grump; no one sees the offended child who assumed the carapace of rebellion and anger, just the bad mannered and intemperate old geezer ...

[eighthobstruction]

Yes, sorry for derailing this discussion slightly....I thought CdeJ, Juien Sorrel, Richard Barrett and CornetIV, had interesting things to say....and might have been steering it somewhere tha could have been productive....

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

He - or rather someone on the BBC - did, in the early 1980s: it was one of the jibes that was the basis of Derek Jameson's disastrous libel action against the "Week Ending" programme...

Jameson’s broadcasting career was also remarkable in that it came late in his life, and was the indirect consequence of a libel case against the BBC in 1984... Jameson launched a financially ruinous suit against the Radio Four comedy programme Week Ending, which he lost. The costs forced him to accept a job with the very broadcaster which had been the source of his complaint.
The show had described him as an “East End boy made bad”, who “believed that 'Erudite’ was a glue” and had arrived in journalism “uncluttered with taste or talent”. His editorial principles, according to Week Ending, were based on “all the nudes fit to print and all the news printed to fit”. Jameson, the programme suggested, “is to journalism what lockjaw is to conversation”.(From Daily Telegraph obituary, 2012)

The jury found that it was all fair comment and Jameson had to pay everyone's costs..

(BTW if this isn't bang on-topic on a thread about 'Class', I don't know what it!)

ah it all trickles back .... did he not become a morning dj on r2?

[eighthobstruction]

Have you actually got a paradigm??....because we'd like to disagree with it.... (got me boots on today, and spuds on the boil)....

[Beef Oven]

"middle class lefties" ...... ?

Come on you really can do better than that
(and don't start doing the "real world", "university of life" nonsense .......... please )

How about (as the good prof suggested) some definitions ?

or are "middle class lefties" just people who disagree with ?

(hang on i've got a volvo and a pair of sandals .........)

You've got a Volvo? YOU'VE GOT A VOLVO!!!? You aint my avant garde/contemporary music mentor no more

[MrGongGong]

You've got a Volvo? YOU'VE GOT A VOLVO!!!? You aint my avant garde/contemporary music mentor no more

Rob Worby used to have a Volvo until he moved to London to be a cheesy R3 presenter...... you can have him as a mentor then


(B and F# for a long time )

[teamsaint]

Is the implication also that Jesus had a Volvo?
Right hand drive presumably.

[Beef Oven]

Rob Worby used to have a Volvo until he moved to London to be a cheesy R3 presenter...... you can have him as a mentor then


(B and F# for a long time )

Ken Howard might still have a Volvo

[BBMmk2]

Some of the people who invaded Britain in 1066 are still in charge....no matter what morality, work ethic, self-belief, luck, love, unselfishness/selfishness of parents, values, integrity and - paramount - intelligence....

....it's called Pecking order....sometimes some little tit nips in and grabs some bread....but only if the bigger birds know they will get their full feed....

Some families are here still, that were deposed, ie in a civil war, but are still herre, unfortunately no longer in charge!!

[Richard Barrett]

hang on i've got a volvo

Either there are no OECD figures on this or I can't be asked to find them, but my real-life experience shows that almost all car-owning musicians own Swedish cars.

[MrGongGong]

Either there are no OECD figures on this or I can't be asked to find them, but my real-life experience shows that almost all car-owning musicians own Swedish cars.

Grade V harp includes reversing a volvo 940 into a parking space

[ahinton]

Either there are no OECD figures on this or I can't be asked to find them, but my real-life experience shows that almost all car-owning musicians own Swedish cars.

Is that so? What if any conclusions might you draw from that?

[Richard Barrett]

Grade V harp includes reversing a volvo 940 into a parking space

Excellent.