Cyprus and banks

[LeMartinPecheur]

Edit : and the banks are the ones who offered/still offer HUGE credit card limits. I reckon I have available balances of at least £50k that I could use any time I want. Probably more. Plain daft.And I didn't ask for it the high limits, was just given them.

This trick has now been ended by (IIRC) amendments to the Consumer Credit Act. Increases in credit limits now require a customer request, and presumably some assessment of borrower's ability to pay, since the latter is now required responsible behaviour for all lenders. And the Office of Fair Trading is now getting quite tough about this: failure to make such checks has been a big factor, apparently, in the revocation of credit licences of pay-day lenders and others such as 'Log Book Loans'.

But don't worry you free-market capitalists: these are the dying throes of the OFT which ceases to exist round about the end of March next year. We wait to see how the successor financial quango will approach such matters - possibly a severe slapping with some high-class wet fish(smoked salmon? In sandwiches to cushion the shock??)

[teamsaint]

I understand Seymour to be referring to existing banking systems necessarily having to maintain present arrangements, and not saying these would be relevant to the proposals he puts forward - which I for one, heartily welcome. At last, some sense!

The question I now ask is, would the Co-op be up for such a role?

I think that is what I understood. It's just that they don't seem to do those things.

The Coop would certainly be up for it. As longs as there is a few quid in it.

[Resurrection Man]

and you watch as people whose rent is paid by Housing Benefit find that the sum usually paid directly to their landlord suddenly gets paid into their personal account by order of The Quiet Man Ian 'Can You Hear Me Mother?' Dunkin' Donut, you watch the incidence and amount of rent arrears go sky high

And your point is what exactly ? Not sure, TBH. It must be there somewhere

[Resurrection Man]

or having to exist on paltry salaries and buy houses in a market where prices went sky high because of the availability(to the banks's benefit) of plentiful credit.

Don't blame the victim. The banks are the ones with the power.

Edit : and the banks are the ones who offered/still offer HUGE credit card limits. I reckon I have available balances of at least £50k that I could use any time I want. Probably more. Plain daft.And I didn't ask for it the high limits, was just given them.

You are confusing things. Paltry salaries never came into it. There was plenty of money available and it was taken...by people on self-certified mortgages. That they could not afford it was their problem..not the banks.

[ahinton]

You are confusing things. Paltry salaries never came into it. There was plenty of money available and it was taken...by people on self-certified mortgages. That they could not afford it was their problem..not the banks.

So who offered these self-cert mortgages then? Not the banks? Come on; who? And what is your overall view on borrowing, be it international, national, corporate or personal? As someone once said, ""never a borrower nor a lender be"? - well then be dead, because that's the only alternative open to you!". There are now complaints galore that British banks are not lending enough, albeit in a time of great national indebtedness in Britain; those complaints will become louder still now that banks are being called upon to up their reserves in the vain hope of avoiding the risk of financial Armageddon and, if they comply (which is admittedly by no means certain), it will still further compromise their ability to lend. If everyone felt - as well many might - that they cannot afford to borrow money and they therefore do not do so, more and more economies will grind to a halt as a direct consequence. We all live and conduct most if not all aspects of our lives on borrowed money just as we do on borrowed time until the medical scientists manage to overcome that unfortunate restriction. Those on state benefits (including state retirement benefit), for example, are paid them partly out or money borrowed by government and partly out of receipts of tax paid by people who have to fund at least some of their taxpaying out of borrowings. Live with it; you have no option to do otherwise, like it or not.

[teamsaint]

You are confusing things. Paltry salaries never came into it. There was plenty of money available and it was taken...by people on self-certified mortgages. That they could not afford it was their problem..not the banks.

that is just supposition though.
For instance, banks certainly covered themselves on self certified by charging higher rates of interest. I know, I had one.
Edit: in general I was asked to pay a premium of about 1%. Additionally, "self certified" mortgages for the self employed also required some quite rigorous checks, such as 3 years accounts.Also, mortgage arrears are certainly not confined to the self employed, at whom self certified, in this country, was mainly aimed.
Low salaries certainly do come into the equation. Low salaries mean that in order to house yourself adequately, a higher proportion of salary goes on mortgage payments , and so leaving less for savings to cover spells of unemployment , for instance.

It is the people in a position to make decisions who need to be asked questions, not people unfortunate enough to suffer at the hands of a financial system designed for the wealthy by the wealthy.There was and is a level of financial irresponsibility among the public, of course. But it is the banks and the advertisers that fuel it.

[amateur51]

And your point is what exactly ? Not sure, TBH. It must be there somewhere

It follows on directly from teams' mes #37 - banks have been encouraging buy-to-let for yonks. Local authority housing is not being adequately replaced after the disastrous thatcher yers so the private sector is all that poor people can fall back on. They need Housing Benefit to help them eke out their poor salaries ( that;'s why they're poor) so Housing Benefit ends up picking up the tab for an unregulated private market.

If you're poor and you suddenly find that money that was being paid directly to your landlord suddenly starts ending up in your bank account then, as Anna describes, things like shoes for the kids become possible but at the expense of paying your rent - you'll probably pay some but not the full whack every month.It's a cruel trick to play on people who are struggling to cope, as was offering credit increases.

And don't get too excited by being praised by the member for Amber Valley, RM

[amateur51]

You are confusing things. Paltry salaries never came into it. There was plenty of money available and it was taken...by people on self-certified mortgages. That they could not afford it was their problem..not the banks.

I sometimes wonder if you're carbon-based, RM?

Niot everyone has a Geoffrey Robinson to lob a few hundred thousand in their direction when they want to buy a property beyond their means, y'know

[aeolium]

This is an interesting assessment of the European situation, though perhaps the prediction as to its eventual outcome is on the optimistic side. Those with the economic and political power will fight hard to preserve it.

[Simon]

And don't get too excited by being praised by the member for Amber Valley, RM

Indeed, don't. It is far more important to be disagreed with by the member for Willesden Green.

Because when that happens, you know you're right!

[ahinton]

Indeed, don't. It is far more important to be disagreed with by the member for Willesden Green.

Because when that happens, you know you're right!

Ah, that elusive luxury of knowing that one is right! Not something that's widely available, to my knowledge, so do enjoy that rare privilege as best you can!

[teamsaint]

I like AH's marvellously succinct point.
The older I get, the less I am sure of most things. However , here are a few things I am sure of.

Almost all politicians are tainted by the process of politics, if they aren't deeply tainted before they start.

The banks are running the world.

Housing in the UK is in far too short supply,and is far too expensive compared to wages and salaries .

Generational/age division is going to be played on hard by governments as another phase in divide and rule.

Shortages in energy supply are inexcusable.

Rubbra and Arnold are underplayed on R3.(Though Breakfast played a chunk of Bax this morning.)

[An_Inspector_Calls]

I seem to recall a Panorama(?) programme in the early 00s on the subject of self-certified mortgages and I don't remember any mention of checks or audits on the applications by whatever issuing authority. The mortgage leverage went as high as six times supposed salary. Is there any wonder house prices went through the roof?

[An_Inspector_Calls]

I would want to hate anyone, but lies are lies and should not be covered up by anyone.

But you do seem to use the term with little care or thought . . .

[teamsaint]

I seem to recall a Panorama(?) programme in the early 00s on the subject of self-certified mortgages and I don't remember any mention of checks or audits on the applications by whatever issuing authority. The mortgage leverage went as high as six times supposed salary. Is there any wonder house prices went through the roof?

I can only speak from experience AIC. I had 2 or 3 mortages as a SE person, and they were all carefully vetted.
Certainly mortgage multipliers went high, but I suspect that even 4 times was high at the peak, and that 5 or 6 was reserved for those on big salaries and secure jobs.

I could be wrong, but these very easy and sensibly priced mortages are a bit of a myth, IMO.
In any case, lenders calculate risk. The decisions are theirs.