University Challenge

[Mary Chambers]

But bullying, according to those in the know, is 'much worse' these days than ever before. So maybe you can't create or eliminate bullying, you can only shift it around.

At least it's not officially sanctioned by schools now, though.

[MrGongGong]

At least it's not officially sanctioned by schools now, though.

Indeed

You don't improve the world by modelling the worst ways to behave

(how do I say that in Latin?)

[Beef Oven!]

At least it's not officially sanctioned by schools now, though.

Does it matter whether you are informally being beaten up or forced into sex, or formally abused?

[Beef Oven!]

I used to work with lifers and they were the most 'normal' group of chaps (on the surface) you would encounter.

Evidence?

(I'm not saying you are wrong but where is the evidence for this?)

[MrGongGong]

They mean having properly organised vocational education, like in Germany and the Netherlands. Linked to industry. Obviously the UKIP recognise that other countries do it well. Pretty simple really.

NO NO NO NO & NO

There is far too much "industry" involvement in education as it is
Conflating education with "job training" is a big mistake

[Beef Oven!]

NO NO NO NO & NO

There is far too much "industry" involvement in education as it is
Conflating education with "job training" is a big mistake

Evidence?

(I'm not saying you are wrong but where is the evidence for this?)

[MrGongGong]

Evidence?

(I'm not saying you are wrong but where is the evidence for this?)

See the picture above

I think you might need a version of this

http://www.stopdrunktexting.com

[Beef Oven!]

See the picture above

I think you might need a version of this

http://www.stopdrunktexting.com

Sadly, I haven't had a drop! Two hours ahead of you here in Istanbul. Going to bed.

[Pabmusic]

Come off it love.
You don't get anywhere by beating people, you just mess them up, some permanently.

Evidence?

(I'm not saying you are wrong but where is the evidence for this?)

Here's probably the best-known: http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas.../spanking.aspx You'll note that, out of 11 qualities, only one (immediate compliance) was improved by the use of corporal punishment. All the others (moral internalization, quality of relationship with parent, physical abuse from that parent, mental health, aggression, criminal or antisocial behavior, and abuse of own children or spouse in later life) were made worse. There's a very old study from the UK that looked ay corporal punishment in prisons and found that prisoners who were beaten were likely to be more aggressive, but I can't find it.

Will that do for starters?

Young offenders and young grammar school kids are, ahem, different let's say, cohorts.

In your head matey
The thing that always struck me when I used to work in prisons and the like was how ordinary and like everyone else those inside were.
I used to work with lifers and they were the most 'normal' group of chaps (on the surface) you would encounter.

Evidence?

(I'm not saying you are wrong but where is the evidence for this?)

This is not quite as straightforward, since I know of no study that looked specifically at how 'ordinary' prisoners are. But there are annual statistics showing the demographic spread of prisoners' backgrounds, and the incidence of personality disorders and (shamefully) mental illness among them. 20-30% have learning disabilities. Here's some: http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/...onthefacts.pdf

At an anecdotal level, I would say that the majority of lifers are 'ordinary' people who have committed extraordinary crimes. The mix is much the same as we find in any 'ordinary' pub. That is, of course, an opinion, but it is based on 30 years' face-to-face contact with prisoners, with six years at Coldingley having personal responsibility for a large group of lifers.

[Beef Oven!]

I feel so fortunate that the headmaster (as they were called then) at my primary school played pieces of classical music to us at morning assembly and that a basic understanding of classical music was taught in my first couple of years of secondary school (a secondary modern not a grammar school).

My headmaster also played a piece of classical music at the morning assembly every day. It helped to reinforce my interest in music in general terms and kept an ear open to classical music, specifically.

[MrGongGong]

At an anecdotal level, I would say that the majority of lifers are 'ordinary' people who have committed extraordinary crimes. The mix is much the same as we find in any 'ordinary' pub. That is, of course, an opinion, but it is based on 30 years' face-to-face contact with prisoners, with six years at Coldingley having personal responsibility for a large group of lifers.

That was my (albeit much shorter and less intense) experience as well.

[Beef Oven!]

That was my (albeit much shorter and less intense) experience as well.

Mine too. Lifers are ordinary people who have committed extraordinary crimes and people who are not lifers are ordinary people who haven't. Not saying much, are we? Good job it's just anecdotal rambling.

[greenilex]

Well, in my eyes putting oneself in the shoes of another, even an outcast, is probably something with a religious origin.

So it could be said to be important.

I'm more animist than humanist, these days.

[Richard Barrett]

properly organised vocational education, like in Germany and the Netherlands. Linked to industry. Obviously the UKIP recognise that other countries do it well.

But of course another thing "they" do well is things like music education... having had in recent years the opportunity to compare from the inside higher education in music in the UK and in the Netherlands, I can say that there's a refreshing lack in the latter of "vocational" and "student-as-consumer" emphasis.

Whereas the Ukips' policy on higher education appears to be to scrap tuition fees for STEM subjects but keep them for arts and humanities. "Pretty simple really" - indeed. Philistinism at its purest.

[Pabmusic]

Mine too. Lifers are ordinary people who have committed extraordinary crimes and people who are not lifers are ordinary people who haven't. Not saying much, are we? Good job it's just anecdotal rambling.

Sorry, BO, but that's unacceptable. I for one am not anecdotally rambling. Some of what I said was indeed anecdotal (as opposed to empirical) but it was based on many years experience of dealing with exactly the group we were discussing. During 30 years I have read many reports and received much formal training (and, incidentally, trained large numbers of staff myself) in exactly this area. Quite apart from working, day in, day out, with such prisoners.

As to "rambling" - I find that simply rude,whoever it was aimed at.