University Challenge

[Dave2002]

Absolutely true; and there is one more proviso. The Head Teacher must let him/her get on with it, plus providing time and resources.

It's perhaps not quite that - though some Head Teachers may not be interested. In many areas it's the governors who decide, or at least take the flak. There are undoubtedly some Head Teachers who are incompetent or not interested, but maybe often they have their hands tied by finances. Governments over the last decade or more have claimed, rightly, that they are spending more on schools. Unfortunately they don't do this completely honestly. It is true that they spend more, but at the same time there are agreements to pay teachers more, and also anciliary staff. For many schools the requirement is that the pay and other costs come out of the school budgets. The consequence of this is that in real terms funding for teaching staff is reduced.

I don't know all the details, but I am aware of this as a problem. There may indeed be support for music by some involved in decision making, but if there is insufficient funding then the music teachers are going to head the list for staff cuts. Unfortuntely this often has other knock on effects, as the music teacher may be involved in other school activity - such as providing the music for plays, shows etc.
When that teacher is "let go", a lot of other activity collapses.

Funding is apparently determined to some extent measured by how many students are submitted for examinations at GCSE or A level. Art is perhaps more popular, and also perceived as being easier by students, so art as subject is perhaps slightly less under threat than music, as it attracts more students who are successful - or at least entered - in exams. Any side effect cultural benefits of either art or music are largely ignored when deciding on funding.

While the Head Teacher may be seen as the deciding person in making decisions, often it is politically more expedient for the governors to decide - and take the blame for "letting a teacher go".

[BBMmk2]

It seems that anything referring explicitly to something specifically religious - well, to be frank about it, Christian is largely expunged from the Primary school curriculum - in the generality. Ofsted have zero interest in music in schools, and I daresay the same applies for compulsory acts of worship (assuming they, technically, survived Gove's ravages of the education system). The ever present exceptions will be a matter of the commitment of individual headteachers and to some extent teachers. Our local infant school abandoned its Christmas nativity for year one and reception - I always got a strong sense they saw parents crossing the threshold of the school as unwelcome, and had the vapours at the thought of a hall full of likely feckless family members. Mrs CS promoted a huge amount of musical activity in junior schools, never required of her, always down to the headteacher's willingness or otherwise and latterly she stopped her music teaching (having previously given up class teaching) when enough obstacles had been placed in her way by an ignorant (in the true sense of that word) headteacher who preferred to concentrate, wholeheartedly, on coore curriculum and OFSTED's priorities. As a primary head friend told me, "They can terminate a head's services in double quick time these days........".

To illustrate, a new headteacher suspicious of the Christmas concert wanted to be reassured the children would be singing/performing music that would be suitable "like they hear in the supermarket". 30 minutes at the piano playing the music in question and specifying the texts resulted in agreement and the comment that it would be "lovely....". (That was a head who had been on a "resistance to change" course before they arrived....with all the trouble and grief that unfolded as a result).

Consequently music, if it is actually covered is an exercise of listening to something, creating some sounds, repeat again, boxes ticked. The children sing no hymns, or even the anodyne semi-religious efforts we might recall. They might just hear pieces of classical music but will retain no knowledge of it.

Contacts in secondary teaching tell me that all year 7 pupils, on entrance are assumed to know nothing. Consequenlty, for example a 10/11 year old pianist due to take grade 8, having made astonishing progress, is sitting whilst the classmates learn about crochets and quavers. Again it depends on the wishes of the head and the backing given, so in general music teachers come and go and boxes are ticked. All of the above preceded Covid. A local secondary with a superb, inclusive and thriving music department and scene was of course decimated by the exigencies of the pandemic and for one reason and another the music staff have moved on, there is a new head and it remains to be seen if the successors have the necessary - well, crucial - vision and commitment. Given the financial crisis faced by schools - covid costs - not least catch up for core subjects, imposition of other costs* - these have served to leave little or no funds to spend on non-core subjects, hard choices and tick box completion to the extent that music is required. (*I'd need to check but I recall loading of greater costs (pension costs in the payroll? - VAT? - Nat Insurance - some such).

As a consequence, given the developing situation in England, the choirs in which I sing will provide for a fee, a group to sing hymns at funerals and weddings and it is noticeable that, increasingly, there are not enough in the congregation able to sing a hymn which would be very familiar to most of the members here.

All of this is a cultural observation; I am sure there are those for whom the purity of absence of these things from the lives of children is entirely desirable. Myself, I regard matters of my church going to be largely cultural/social, and struggle with the concepts I am asked to subscribe to - but then I am flawed and definitely intellectually "impure".

Finally, to observe that in future years, if not already, undergraduates knowing much about classical music / serious music is going to be a result of few factors - one being an exceptional interest in the home - along with support for instrumental playing or other participation, a church (hymn singing etc). Apart from that, of course the other major element are those educated in fee-paying schools. I asked a prep school maths teacher if they had intrumental teaching, an orchestra, a choir - the reply being "of course, the parents demand it....". They will also have been to (almost) compulsory chapel services and been at the least given some acquantance with Classical / serious music.

I asked Mrs CS whether she was aware of parents in state primary schools demanding that there should be no hymns, carols, assemblies of a religious nature or celebrations of Easter and Christmas and she was not aware there had ever been such complaints. The most she could recall were some RC and Brethren children who were withdrawn from such occasions; there were numerous Hindu and Moslem families - but could not point to demands they were not held. I asked if it was headteachers, teachers or even governors being the lead in deciding to neutralise these elements - so Christmas becomes "The Holidays" and Easter a festival of egg hunts - and answer came there none. For all the value he placed on "traditional" education, Gove Failed to bolster music and these cultural elements, and ensure that OFSTED's spotlight was shone on the consequent delivery.

Sorry to have gone on so long - it all started with having no surprise about the contestants on UC. I expect tertiary eductation academies, university music courses to be full of students from fee paying schools and those other parents who supported their children through all the years, outside of school time - and a few from truly exceptional state school departments. And finally - launch a wedding ("can do funerals/events") singing group in your choir - there is money to be made to support your activities. As a side interest, discussions about the outfits of the bridal group / relatives and other elements - sometimes Dibley style, etc

Having worked in both sectors, I can see the divide. Having music in schools makes such a difference. State schools la k soul, because of this.

[AuntDaisy]

I see that Bamber Gascoigne has died, the end of another era.
Anyone remember the infamous smoking incident on UC?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60301687

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/feb/08/bamber-gascoigne-former-university-challenge-quizmaster-dies-at-87

[ardcarp]

Yes just heard the sad news. What a different (and preferable?) style from Paxo. And haven't students changed too?

[AuntDaisy]

Yes just heard the sad news. What a different (and preferable?) style from Paxo. And haven't students changed too?

Yes, a much more gentle approach.

There's a Pro-Celebrity Edition 1992 episode on YouTube with some historical clips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YttqW-Da8o

[Bryn]

Sadly now replaced by the gas prepayment cargd.

[cloughie]

Yes just heard the sad news. What a different (and preferable?) style from Paxo. And haven't students changed too?

Always appeared a kindly person!

Sadly his days of ‘having to hurry’ people gone forever.
RIP Bamber

[Petrushka]

I remember seeing one of the very first University Challenge programmes when visiting a neighbours house, probably around 1962/3. I would be 8 or 9 while Bamber wasn't much older than the students on the teams! Watched it countless times thereafter but found Paxman too irritating and without the urbane humour that Bamber brought to it and let's not forget that he set the questions himself.

I once spotted Bamber Gascoigne in the audience a few seats away from me at a 1990s Prom (not sure which one) in the Royal Albert Hall.

[Ein Heldenleben]

He also made a major contribution to opera in this country taking on Grange Park Opera when it became homeless and he inherited a stately home. One of those urbane and cultured people who used to be fairly common in the media who are sadly becoming rarer and rarer.

[LHC]

Having just watched last nights episode, this year’s Imperial College team look unstoppable. They have scored over 200 in all of their 4 matches so far, and have thrashed everyone they have played against (including some very good teams that have impressed in their other rounds).

They also come over very well and have even managed to charm the normally irascible Paxman, who described them as a pleasure to watch when congratulating them on their win last night.

[Nick Armstrong]

Having just watched last nights episode, this year’s Imperial College team look unstoppable. They have scored over 200 in all of their 4 matches so far, and have thrashed everyone they have played against (including some very good teams that have impressed in their other rounds).

They also come over very well and have even managed to charm the normally irascible Paxman, who described them as a pleasure to watch when congratulating them on their win last night.

Agreed, except there’s been a hoo-haa in the media due to the captain’s habit of constantly consulting his (white) chum Jackson to his left, appearing almost completely to ignore the two (non white) team members to his right. It did seem quite marked last night, as if he “only has eyes for” Mr Jackson.

That said, the phenomenal Mr Zeng didn’t need any consultation - the human equivalent of Google Maps was only unseated briefly by the vagaries of Welsh cheese and castles (he didn’t answer caerphilly enough…)

[Serial_Apologist]

Agreed, except there’s been a hoo-haa in the media due to the captain’s habit of constantly consulting his (white) chum Jackson to his left, appearing almost completely to ignore the two (non white) team members to his right. It did seem quite marked last night, as if he “only has eyes for” Mr Jackson.

That said, the phenomenal Mr Zeng didn’t need any consultation - the human equivalent of Google Maps was only unseated briefly by the vagaries of Welsh cheese and castles (he didn’t answer caerphilly enough…)

Cheesus!!!

[Bryn]

Both teams pretty dire on 20th Century music tonight.

[Serial_Apologist]

Both teams pretty dire on 20th Century music tonight.

I managed Nixon in China, but wouldn't have had a clue about which characters were being referred to in the arias. Perhaps they might have got the right answers if they'd listened to the lyrics - preventing me too from hearing them, btw - rather than talking over them?

[Bryn]

I managed Nixon in China, but wouldn't have had a clue about which characters were being referred to in the arias. Perhaps they might have got the right answers if they'd listened to the lyrics - preventing me too from hearing them, btw - rather than talking over them?

You will not be surprised to hear that I identified each of them after a second or two. I would hope that many here got Rautavaara pretty quickly.