University Challenge

[french frank]

The student in question got a B on his composition mark and as a result failed to get an overall A* which was otherwise on the cards.

Going back to this one since Gongers did: isn't this the reason why savvy students avoid subjects in which high marks are less frequently obtained, and which are therefore perceived as 'difficult' subjects (e.g. languages too)?

Even more off topic.

[MrGongGong]

Going back to this one since Gongers did: isn't this the reason why savvy students avoid subjects in which high marks are less frequently obtained, and which are therefore perceived as 'difficult' subjects (e.g. languages too)?

Even more off topic.

Yes
But then what is (IMV) often missing from discussions around education is what it is for in the first place.

The problem is more that having A* in everything is seen as the only way to get a place to do further study.
Many of the most imaginative artists and composers don't "fit the box"
I think it was Adrian Mitchell who sat 'O' Level English when one of his poems was a set text and failed spectacularly ?

[Nick Armstrong]

Didn't he suggest Bolero for the triplet Wedding March?

Yes he did. Ardy's reference to Mars confused me, just rewatched the question.

I wonder if anyone here would confess to getting any of the 4 wrong...?

[LMcD]

Immodesty forbids!

[Richard Tarleton]

I wonder if anyone here would confess to getting any of the 4 wrong...?

I did not, however, recognise Samuel Barber from his mugshot.

Why did the question have to refer to John Le Carré as the author of "genre fiction"? He is no more an author of genre fiction than Jane Austen, say (topical since she's on my latest batch of £10 notes), all of whose novels are about more or less impoverished young women negotiating matrimony - or as the late great TV critic put it, exchanging property for sex.

[Dave2002]

Yes
But then what is (IMV) often missing from discussions around education is what it is for in the first place.

Quite often I think it’s a con - even prestigious universities having to supply a “job market”.

Even notions that it’s about culture raise other questioms. “What/which culture?”

Today's amazon kindle deal has a book by Jared Diamond - “guns, germs, steel” for 99 p. Or you can look up his web site at ... He obviously has interesting views on culture which could be worth sharing - or look out for him on TED.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00DQ8GDV8/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_1_w?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-2&pf_rd_r=BECGS0Z9GAA2Z9F73Q72&pf_rd_r=BECGS0Z9GAA2Z9F73Q72&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=2e1d5198-3183-4a99-baaf-15b15d290265&pf_rd_p=2e1d5198-3183-4a99-baaf-15b15d290265&pf_rd_i=5400977031

http://www.jareddiamond.org/Jared_Diamond/Welcome.html

[Richard Tarleton]

Even notions that i6’s about culture raise other questioms. “What/which culture?”

Yoday’s amazon kindle deal has a book by Jared Diamond - “guns, germs, steel” for 99 p.

What's the connection - can you expand on this Dave? (I ask because the book would be on the first term reading list for any university history course I was putting together )

[LMcD]

[QUOTE=Richard Tarleton;643086]

Why did the question have to refer to John Le Carré as the author of "genre fiction"?

Why indeed?

[Dave2002]

Richard T.

Sorry - I’m at the end of a slow and erratic internet connection - hence the errors/typos in various versions I’ve edited.

I was responding to Mr GGs question about what education is for - or at least trying to. I used to think that education was unequivocally a good thing, though nowadays I’m not always sure. It depends who’s setting the agenda for education, and perhaps why. Some universities definitely educate for a “job market” - which perhaps presupposes that the better educated output of their courses are going to do jobs which are in a reasonable sense worth while - not simply for the individuals.

The New Guinea tribes which Jared Diamond discusses would have had very different values from those of most of us in jobs in the UK and elsewhere.

[Dave2002]

What's the connection - can you expand on this Dave? (I ask because the book would be on the first term reading list for any university history course I was putting together )

Msg 759 - and the book itself is a “steal” (steel ) at 99p - give it a shot if you haven’t already - you probably have, but others might like to pick this up.

[Richard Tarleton]

Richard T.

The New Guinea tribes which Jared Diamond discusses would have had very different values from those of most of us in jobs in the UK and elsewhere.

They occupy only a tiny part of the book - a starting point. The book is about the huge questions behind how and why the world is as it is, and why history has been as it has been. His other great book "Collapse" is about the rise and fall of different civilizations from around the globe...both look at history from angles such as ecology, anthropology and climate change, which were barely on the syllabus when I studied history at one of our top universities. There, politics, economics, diplomacy, religion and military history were the main themes. Also on my reading list would be Yuval Noah Harari's "Sapiens", Alan Weisman's "The World without Us" and a few other mind-expanding works.

[french frank]

Why did the question have to refer to John Le Carré as the author of "genre fiction"? He is no more an author of genre fiction than Jane Austen, say

? I would have referred to both as writers of 'genre fiction' without intending to disparage in any way. (But my direct knowledge of JleC is limited to having read The Spy Who Came in from the Cold long ago in the last century, and having watched Tinker, Tailor when it was on television, ditto).

[Richard Tarleton]

? I would have referred to both as writers of 'genre fiction' without intending to disparage in any way.

I'm pleased to hear that, but I don't think Austen would be as widely referred to as such in the way as John Le Carré is - he is disparaged, for example in that famous Observer review of The Russia House by Salman Rushdie ("Le Carré is as serious a writer as the spy genre has thrown up. Close but - this time anyway - no cigar"). (At least JLeC has the merit of being readable.) He's long since transcended the genre, in the way great writers who see the world through a milieu they know and understand do? (Graham Greene springs to mind here, and as a wacky contrast Iris Murdoch).

[french frank]

He's long since transcended the genre

Maybe it's my faulty definition [⬅︎ Smiley] but I'm not sure how one could 'transcend' a genre to the point where one is no longer in it? Genre, for me, is principally the subject matter/environment one chooses to write about, definable by a number of characteristics, and assuming a writer chooses the basic subject /environment in a number of works. Rushdie's comment is like that of most press 'critics' who are paid to give their own opinion. In my view.

[Richard Tarleton]

[⬅︎ Smiley]

but I'm not sure how one could 'transcend' a genre to the point where one is no longer in it? Genre, for me, is principally the subject matter/environment one chooses to write about, definable by a number of characteristics, and assuming a writer chooses the basic subject /environment in a number of works. Rushdie's comment is like that of most press 'critics' who are paid to give their own opinion. In my view.

What I meant by "transcend" (at the risk of flogging this to death ) is: the point at which you are, and University Challenge questions simply refer to you as, a "novelist" ? ("...genre fiction writer Jane Austen...." ? ) (Thinking of his contemporary Ian Fleming, for example, who probably, er, didn't. Transcend, that is. ) Just something - and this may have been partly Paxo's inimitable contribution - faintly patronising about it. Perhaps I'm just being over-sensitive.