University Challenge

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... o, I am not disagreeing that 'unwitting' might be the right word. My question was more, wherein lies the 'disquiet' which Jean feels?

It's tricky - whilst the brief moment of a child moving unselfconsciously into adulthood is something that can be "delightful" for parents and adult relatives to notice, seeing middle-aged men ogling adolescent girls is something I find - and would describe as - "disquieting".

[jean]

... o, I am not disagreeing that 'unwitting' might be the right word. My question was more, wherein lies the 'disquiet' which Jean feels?

Yes, that is part of it.

The other part is the ogling (ardcarp's word) and the crudeness of the men's words - 'Elle est presque nue!' - which do not seem to be a response to the elegance of the girl.

Ardcarp finds it amusing that this behaviour (apparently) goes without question in France, but is no longer acceptable in this country. I think we should be proud if that's the case.

[jean]

I wouldn't've chosen "innocent" ...

A tricky word. It can of course be opposed to guilty, so that not being the one necessitates being the other.

Or it can mean completely without knowledge or understanding of - a state we might hope children could remain in safely until they were old enough for the knowkedge to be appropriate. But that's an assumption we can't make.

[jean]

Would you prefer blissfully?

Alas, regardless of their doom,
The little victims play !
No sense have they of ills to come,
Nor care beyond today...

...Yet ah ! why should they know their fate ?
Since sorrow never comes too late,
And happiness too swiftly flies.
Thought would destroy their paradise.
No more ; where ignorance is bliss,
’Tis folly to be wise.

(Though since the victims in this case were pupils of Eton College, we need not worry too much about the fate that might befall them.)

[vinteuil]

Yes, that is part of it.

The other part is the ogling (ardcarp's word) and the crudeness of the men's words - 'Elle est presque nue!' - which do not seem to be a response to the elegance of the girl.

Ardcarp finds it amusing that this behaviour (apparently) goes without question in France, but is no longer acceptable in this country. I think we should be proud if that's the case.

... of course 'elle est presque nue!' might not have been an expression of lubricity : it could well have been an expression of disapproval - what was this person - any person - doing walking into town sem-naked : beach-wear is all right on the beach, but moving away from the beach more seemly attire is required. The French can be quite pernickety about such matters.

'Ogling' has nasty connotations. But attractive young people of either sex will be 'admired' by people who are much older. It is an unpleasant experience - the association of the old with young flesh; but my dislike of such is I think an aesthetic one rather than a moral one.

If older people will always tend to admire pretty young things I don't think we gain much by saying that this is 'unacceptable'; the French might say that this was just another example of priggish English hypocrisy.

[Sir Velo]

Depends on what you mean by the age of innocence.

Innocence surrounded by prurience may be delightful, but it's perilous for the innocent.

Have we learnt nothing from the Savile affair?

The problem is that by your saying that her innocence should not be considered "delightful", you are therefore saying that she should have had a Lolita like perception of the effect her appearance would be having.

I would have thought that children grow up fast enough without having that wished on them.

[jean]

The problem is that by your saying that her innocence should not be considered "delightful", you are therefore saying that she should have had a Lolita like perception of the effect her appearance would be having.

What nonsense. An awareness of the effect her appearance might be having doesn't turn her into a Lolita.

(This thread has been horribly revealing of the workings of the minds of elderly men. I really wish I hadn't read some of these replies.)

[Serial_Apologist]

What nonsense. An awareness of the effect her appearance might be having doesn't turn her into a Lolita.

(This thread has been horribly revealing of the workings of the minds of elderly men. I really wish I hadn't read some of these replies.)

Me too, speaking as one. The nudge-nudge culture lingers on...

[ardcarp]

OMG what have I started? I was merely commenting on certain cultural differences between France and Blighty. Instead we seem to be heavily into semantics.
(Gallic shrug. C'est la vie.) We seem to have strayed from University Challenge...but maybe it was my fault for mentioning 'the cool she-captain'.

[Serial_Apologist]

OMG what have I started? I was merely commenting on certain cultural differences between France and Blighty. Instead we seem to be heavily into semantics.
(Gallic shrug. C'est la vie.)

The description never fully covers the described - to coin a pun.

[Richard Tarleton]

I'm not exaggerating very much when I say (to paraphrase Dr Tony Attwood):

University Challenge might well be renamed Spot The Aspie.

[Aspie = person with Asperger's Syndrome/Mild Autism/High Functioning Autism - or whatever you want to call it.]

Lovely piece in today's Sunday Times about the Peterhouse team, mostly about Hannah Woods but several paragraphs on Oscar Powell who talks engagingly and frankly including about having been diagnosed with Asperger's at a young age. He seems to take the ribbing in his stride.

[Pabmusic]

Lovely piece in today's Sunday Times about the Peterhouse team, mostly about Hannah Woods but several paragraphs on Oscar Powell who talks engagingly and frankly including about having been diagnosed with Asperger's at a young age. He seems to take the ribbing in his stride.

No surprise, of course. I just wish I'd been aware at that age.

[subcontrabass]

New series now started. Beethoven identified from description (even if his first name was not pronounced correctly), but French opera was a total no-go area.

[Stanfordian]

New series now started. Beethoven identified from description (even if his first name was not pronounced correctly), but French opera was a total no-go area.

Hiya subcontrabass,

It was good for me but nothing else was!

[Richard Tarleton]

What an excellent round last night - two cracking teams. The losers more or less certain to be back, with a score like that. Not sure about the eye-liner but he does do drama, and gave some good answers.....