"The Reichorchester" reviewed

[richardfinegold]

This is a movie made by the Berlin Philharmonic in 2007 and issued on the Arthaus label. The subtitle is "The Berlin Philharmonic and the Third Reich." It is the Orchestra's attempt to deal with a difficult blot on their history, when they were used a cultural ambassadors by the Nazis. I stumbled across it when I was looking to augment my collection of music on Blu Ray. I have read 2 Furtwangler biographies and in general have a great interest in the period so I decided to buy the movie.
This was a waste of $40. There are some interesting clips of Goebbels addressing the Orchestra. The rest is a few reminiscences by elderly surviving musicians. In general their remarks can be summarized as "We knew there were some bad things going on, but we just play music."
Colleagues would suddenly vanish, there were rumors that they were in some camp somewhere, and no one thought much more about it. The Orchestra toured widely in occupied countries, including bombed out Rotterdam, but none of this seems to have left much of an impression on them.
After the surrender, the Orchestra (a self governing group) decided to ban the "obvious Nazis" in their midst--the musicians that would play concerts wearing full party regalia. Apparently they thought that this was an act of courage on their part and that they deserved commendation for it. Actually, this was an act of self preservation on their part. By appearing to "Cleanse themselves" of Nazis they could be allowed to continue as an Orchestra by the Occupation authorities.
One of the last concerts given before the surrender was a benefit for wounded German soldiers. As they viewed their maimed audience, many of the musicians felt guilty that as musicians they had enjoyed a special status out of harms way. This appears to be the only real emotion that the orchestra was capable of: Not any grieving for the numerous victims of the Reich, but for their own kind, the only victims of the war that they thought worthy of their empathy. In the end this movie left me with a great sadness, a sense that nothing was learned from the entire tragedy. I guess I shouldn't have expected more from someone who feels that their only obligation in life is to make music.

[Roehre]

Has been broadcast IIRC at least three times in Britain, saw it myself twice.
There is/has been a thread on the Reichsorchester in the past here.

[Roehre]

This is a movie made by the Berlin Philharmonic in 2007 and issued on the Arthaus label. The subtitle is "The Berlin Philharmonic and the Third Reich." It is the Orchestra's attempt to deal with a difficult blot on their history, when they were used a cultural ambassadors by the Nazis. I stumbled across it when I was looking to augment my collection of music on Blu Ray. I have read 2 Furtwangler biographies and in general have a great interest in the period so I decided to buy the movie.
This was a waste of $40. There are some interesting clips of Goebbels addressing the Orchestra. The rest is a few reminiscences by elderly surviving musicians. In general their remarks can be summarized as "We knew there were some bad things going on, but we just play music."
Colleagues would suddenly vanish, there were rumors that they were in some camp somewhere, and no one thought much more about it. The Orchestra toured widely in occupied countries, including bombed out Rotterdam, but none of this seems to have left much of an impression on them.
After the surrender, the Orchestra (a self governing group) decided to ban the "obvious Nazis" in their midst--the musicians that would play concerts wearing full party regalia. Apparently they thought that this was an act of courage on their part and that they deserved commendation for it. Actually, this was an act of self preservation on their part. By appearing to "Cleanse themselves" of Nazis they could be allowed to continue as an Orchestra by the Occupation authorities.
One of the last concerts given before the surrender was a benefit for wounded German soldiers. As they viewed their maimed audience, many of the musicians felt guilty that as musicians they had enjoyed a special status out of harms way. This appears to be the only real emotion that the orchestra was capable of: Not any grieving for the numerous victims of the Reich, but for their own kind, the only victims of the war that they thought worthy of their empathy. In the end this movie left me with a great sadness, a sense that nothing was learned from the entire tragedy. I guess I shouldn't have expected more from someone who feels that their only obligation in life is to make music.

I am very sorry, but I am afraid this is a view on an era judged with the benefit of hindsight.
I almost would say, a typical American way of looking at the problem: it is a near impossibillity to judge what daily life in the Third Reich (or in any other dictatorship) was by Europeans, even by those old enough to either have lived through or been born in the direct shadow of WW2.
My father was arrested twice by the German occupying forces, once with my granddad by the Grüne Polizei (the military police) during a razzia in which Jews were rounded up (my family is not Jewish, my father and grandfather "only" being at the wrong place at the "wrong" time) , once by the Gestapo. He was released quite quickly in both cases, but never told anyone what happened or what he had seen during especially that second time, not even my mother.
Nevertheless: my father found Reichsorchester impressive in its representation of what "ordinary" people in either Germany or the occupied territories felt and lived for: their own survival.

It is fundamentally wrong to judge those musicians for what they didn't do: resist against the Nazis and therefore endangering their own lives and those of their families. It was not a bad Hollywood movie - this was the reality.

Btw, the Amsterdam Concertgebouw orchestra gave concerts in Berlin, in Paris, in Vienna during the occupation. Do you really think any of these musicians -even after the expulsion of their Jewish colleagues (of whom one, the BPO's Jewish and therefore fired "konzertmeister" featuring in Das Reichorchester, Szymon Goldberg, in the post-war years happily returned to both orchestras!), even considered to protest? Not with the nazi-collaborators and eavesdropping spies around: it would be a recipe for professional, and possibly physical too, suicide.

... In the end this movie left me with a great sadness, a sense that nothing was learned from the entire tragedy. I guess I shouldn't have expected more from someone who feels that their only obligation in life is to make music

Just try for once to imagine what you are saying, at a distance of nearly threequarter of a century, from a country which only once 150 years ago was ravaged by modern warfare, blessed with the knowledge of hindsight, by condemning people living on another continent who only are trying to survive.

[richardfinegold]

I am very sorry, but I am afraid this is a view on an era judged with the benefit of hindsight.
I almost would say, a typical American way of looking at the problem[...]

You didn't 'almost' say, Roehre; you did say.

So then what would be a 'typical European way' in your opinion, of addressing the era? Unquestioned obedience? Complete lack of morality? I would dispute that all those unfortunate enough to live under totalitarianism did so without protest. Have you ever heard of a musician named Mstislav Rostropovich? Or one named Adolph Busch? Try reading about them some time, Roehre, because you may find it enlightening.

[....]it is a near impossibillity to judge what daily life in the Third Reich (or in any other dictatorship) was by Europeans, even by those old enough to either have lived through or been born in the direct shadow of WW2.
My father was arrested twice by the German occupying forces, once with my granddad by the Grüne Polizei (the military police) during a razzia in which Jews were rounded up (my family is not Jewish, my father and grandfather "only" being at the wrong place at the "wrong" time) , once by the Gestapo. He was released quite quickly in both cases, but never told anyone what happened or what he had seen during especially that second time,
Nevertheless: my father found Reichsorchester impressive in its representation of what "ordinary" people in either Germany or the occupied territories felt and lived for: their own survival[....]

I don't see the relevance of this comment. My family was largely eliminated in the Holocaust and I was was partly raised by survivors. I did not feel the need to mention this in my OP but as you have opened that door, I am quite sure that they would have reached a fundamentally different conclusion regarding this movie than your father did.

I certainly did not expect the musicians to raise their violin cases and storm Gestapo Headquarters in protest. Without question this would have been futile. Their were other ways to protest. The composer Karl Amadeus Hartmann, for example went into "internal exile" refusing to have his works performed during the era. There were the examples cited earlier (and numerous others)
Certainly the musicians would have been able to play in other orchestras and didn't have to toil for the one that was used to maximize Nazi propaganda.
The movie saddened me because there was no representation of a Shostakovich like figure, one that cooperated and did everything that was asked, but at least felt some self loathing in the process. These musicians cared only about themselves and only felt an iota of guilt when they--very belatedly, apparently--
had an inkling of what the war had done to their fellow countrymen. And while yes, Active Resistance would have been futile, wouldn't it have been nice if the Orchestra could have pointed to one quixotic figure in their midst who during the 12 years, did something? There is no "Valkyrie" like figure in this tale.
And why don't you step back for a minute and look back at what you are saying. Individual stands are futile. Survival trumps all, even if your life has no meaning or purpose. Is that the best you can do? Is this how you go about your daily business? If that is how you define being a European, then I'll quite happily stay on my side of the pond, thank you.

[aeolium]

Roehre msg 3 - I totally agree

Those sitting in the comfort of relatively free societies cannot begin to imagine the appalling pressures applied by totalitarian ones, in which state, law, community conspire in a drive to conform which is indeed total. Privileged individuals are in some cases allowed limited license to protest as long as that protest does not undermine the ideology - Furtwaengler was one such - and others could escape abroad if they left early enough, but significant internal protest was impossible and futile. Those who attempted it, like Bonhoeffer, were executed. We may admire such figures but their protest did nothing to undermine the regime and ought we to set it up as a standard for others when we - the great majority of us - would not be courageous enough ourselves?

I saw Das Reichorchester some time back and I thought it was an interesting portrayal of the orchestra during those times. It did seek to differentiate between those members who were ideologically committed to the Nazi party and those who were not, those with families who were trying to survive.

[JFLL]

It did seek to differentiate between those members who were ideologically committed to the Nazi party and those who were not, those with families who were trying to survive.

It might be interesting to know how many in the BPO voted for the Nazi Party in 1933 and before. (Though even if a majority did, they might have regretted it at any time afterwards.)

[Roehre]

It might be interesting to know how many in the BPO voted for the Nazi Party in 1933 and before. (Though even if a majority did, they might have regretted it at any time afterwards.)

We will never know as -except for telling what they voted themselves- the pre-march-1933 elections in the Weimar republic were free and secret. Berlin however was "red", so there is a not-to-be-underestimated chance they voted either Social-Democrat (SPD, IMO likely) or communist (DKP, IMO far less likely). Obviously there must have been Nazi-voters, but IMO not that many, as in 1933 the social class to which the musicians belonged was not a main target for the Nazi-propaganda (SPD and Zentrum [politically slightly right of the middle] were rather more aiming at artists, musicians and the lower middle class)

[aeolium]

Compared with the Berlin Philharmonic's activities during the Nazi period, those of the Vienna Philharmonic have been much less well publicised (at least I am not aware of a book and documentary specifically about them, as is the case with the BPO). That may be changing, according to this article. What might be of particular concern is the apparent endurance of anti-semitism within the orchestra well beyond the end of the war (not just in the incident of the re-award of the ring of honour in the 1960s to the recently released Schirach but also in the story, published in John Drummond's Tainted by Experience of the boycott by eminent members of the VPO of Solti's Gold Medal award ceremony). Anyway, Tuesday 12 March is the date when the historians' reports are to be published on the VPO's website.

[Julien Sorel]

I guess I shouldn't have expected more from someone who feels that their only obligation in life is to make music.

If that is how you define being a European, then I'll quite happily stay on my side of the pond, thank you.

There's an interesting ... crossing between what you say and John Tilbury's explanation of his refusal to perform in the USA.

My contention is that by submitting oneself to the formal procedure of entering the US, by presenting oneself and one's passport to American custom officials for acceptance and approval (and now to be finger-printed: 21.1.04), one is conferring a status of legitimacy, of normality, on a situation which is abnormal. (Nor, for that matter, would I knowingly travel on an airline which hires 'sky-marshals') Furthermore, in making music there we are not 'informing and enlightening the peoples of the USA'; we are in fact providing them with an alibi, a temporary escape, a haven, from the harsh realities of the consequences of the ideology in which they are subsumed. Just as the Orchestras who played Beethoven in the Third Reich did.

http://incalcando.com/tilbury/

[Flosshilde]

I think that before anyone from the USA (I won't say 'American', as there is rather more to America than the USA) pours scorn on European attitudes to the (possible) Nazi attitudes & past of members of an orchestra (or anything else) they should contemplate the USA's role in rescuing Nazi scientists (who did actively contribute to the Nazi war effort) from criminal prosecution & making use of their knowledge in developing nuclear weapons.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/operation-paperclip-us-harbored-nazi-war-criminals-after-world-war-ii/21913

[Pabmusic]

I think that before anyone from the USA (I won't say 'American', as there is rather more to America than the USA) pours scorn on European attitudes to the (possible) Nazi attitudes & past of members of an orchestra (or anything else) they should contemplate the USA's role in rescuing Nazi scientists (who did actively contribute to the Nazi war effort) from criminal prosecution & making use of their knowledge in developing nuclear weapons.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/operati...d-war-ii/21913

I certainly can't comment better than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5JmDNpjKYc

[Estelle]

A couple of minor observations from someone who has not seen the film but has read this thread with great interest:

If the film was made in the years just prior to 2007, that was far too late to receive any sort of decent representation from among orchestra members active during the Third Reich: someone who was 25 in 1940 would have been 90 in 2005, and the majority of wartime members must have been considerably older than 25.

Membership of the orchestra during the war years may have been quite different from that of the years leading up to the war; I can imagine that many members violently opposed to the regime simply found other employment and were replaced by others looking for an opportunity for advancement. This form of silent protest would be exposed only with a study involving the membership rosters during those years between 1933 and 1945 to learn who left the orchestra and why.

[aeolium]

Estelle, I think from memory two surviving members were interviewed for the film and there were also interviews with children of players. There was also some reliance on correspondence and records from the period, but your point about the time distance from the period is a valid one.

It would indeed be interesting to look at the BPO membership rosters during those years. I wonder though how many would have sought other employment - at least within Germany - given the privileged position of the BPO. Uniquely, its members were exempted from military service. And the situation would surely not have been any better in any other German orchestra, indeed arguably worse in that there was a degree of protection afforded to non-party members in the BPO (and initially Furtwängler was able to protect remaining half-Jews or husbands of Jews in the orchestra).

[teamsaint]

I saw this a year or two back on SkyArts I think.
I am not sure that $40 would have been well spent, but it was a fascinating insight into both the world of a top orchestra(under very unusual conditions) and also into how "ordinary life" was going on in the last days of the reich.

AS long as one keeps an open mind about the observations of the interviewees, and normal potential biases, I think it is a film well worth watching, and that one can learn from.
I would certainly encourage people to watch it.