Charlies dodgy influence strikes again

[teamsaint]

I thought the thread was about the prince and the paupers.....

Edit, the NHS already sees fit to offer the homeopathy service. that many of its service users want !

It's all about customer choice, isn't it?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I thought the thread was about the prince and the paupers.....

Edit, the NHS already sees fit to offer the homeopathy service. that many of its service users want !

It's all about customer choice, isn't it?

You wouldn't think so, judging by the hysterical fear of homeopathy that has dominated this thread. it has has quite a different effect on me. Yesterday I bought a small bottle of a homeopathic remedy I used years ago. It may have helped me then, and it may help me now. Or it may not. But it's unlikely to do me any harm.

[Flosshilde]

'Hysterical fear'? I don't think so. Just anger that the NHS is spending money on therapies that evidence shows has no more effect than plain water (which is what it is). Anger, as well, that Prince Charles uses his position to try & exert influence (successfully in some cases) on governments & public institutions.

[umslopogaas]

I thought the thread was about the prince and the paupers.....

Edit, the NHS already sees fit to offer the homeopathy service. that many of its service users want !

It's all about customer choice, isn't it?

I wasnt aware that the NHS offered homeoquackery on its menu, but if it does I object. This is supposed to be the National Health Service, not the National Superstitious Gibberish Service. It cannot be said too loudly or often that homeopathy is pernicious rubbish. Rubbish because it contains not a grain of truth, and pernicious because it has wormed its falsehoods so far into our consciousness that I can go into my local chemist and be confronted with a whole shelf of homeoquack remedies that do nothing and cost you several quid per bottle to prove it.

Hmm ... there's an interesting point here. People who buy this rubbish presumably believe it works. If they believe it works and can buy it, they may feel better. So why should I forbid them to buy it? OK, suckers, go ahead and hand over your money for distillations of Echinacea, the stuff is worthless but the experience of handing over a few quid might make you really want to feel better, so you do, so homeopathy works!

Great. I'll go to bed and continue my reflections on rational thought.

[teamsaint]

Those who are so virulently against Homeopathy have yet to explain why the 10% of the population who want it on the NHS should not have it.
They pay their taxes.
If 100% (or a huge proportion)of those people then come back for conventional treatment, then the Anti's have a good point.If not , then the pro homeopathy group have every right to have their chosen treatment represented in the NHS.
Whether or not homeopathy represents value for money for the NHS, or provides positive outcomes , seem to be wide open for debate at present.
There are more pressing questions to be asked of the NHS at present, than the very small budget provided for Homeopathy.

[Oldcrofter]

Quackademia is still around:

http://www.westminster.ac.uk/courses/subjects/complementary-medicine/undergraduate-courses

It will cost you a mere £9000 x 4 years (plus, of course, living expenses) and then, according to The University of Westminster:

"Graduates may continue in private practice or progress to PhD/Professional Doctorate study, find employment in academic or research institutes. Avenues include management, marketing and development in government and community healthcare provision and related industries"

The number of "academic" courses have fallen in the past few years (there were well over 40 courses in 2007-8) but it's been quite a battle to oust the quacks who had embedded themselves. Not sure how many courses in various forms of complementary/herbal/alternative medicine there are there are left. Will do a bit more research.

[Flosshilde]

The NHS doesn't have unlimited funds. It needs to make sure that it spends those funds in the best possible way. The best way of doing that is to spend money on treatments that actually work, not just because people 'want it'.

[Oldcrofter]

Further to post 126 re Westminster University, here's an example of how the University of Wales was hoodwinked into validating a worthless course. I believe it has now been expunged from the Prospectus.

http://www.dcscience.net/?p=259

[teamsaint]

Maybe the NHS should do less of what people want, and more of what people don't want. Things like prescribing oral retinoids to poorly advised young people with mild acne. I have seen this happen. They are serious drugs with potentially very unpleasant and dangerous side effects.The NHS might also consider clamping down on conventional treatments which don't work. The budget wasted on these would far outweigh the amount spent on homeopathy.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Conventional doctors waste money too. I was once very late for an appointment, owing to a doctor who always ran late in his surgery, but on this occasion, he was nearly an hour behind schedule. When I was called, I arrived in some haste, to which the G.P. in question said:
"Oh, you're highly strung. I'm going to prescribe you some Valium." And he did. I would have argued, but then I would have been even later for my appointment.

[Vile Consort]

Its not illogical at all. Your(and my) fears may be exagerated above the actual risk, but fear of flying is not an illogical fear.

Yes it is! Flying is the safest way to travel. Death rates per passenger mile are way, way below those for any other form of transport, including walking.

[teamsaint]

Yes it is! Flying is the safest way to travel. Death rates per passenger mile are way, way below those for any other form of transport, including walking.

it IS logical to be afraid of being hurtled around in a metal box, 5 miles high, when things can go wrong.
it can be dangerous. It is illogical to be more afraid of it than of doing something supposedly more dangerous, like driving in Swindon.
Being afraid of a woodlouse attack is illogical. Fear of flying is an exaggerated but logical fear.

Edit: and in any case, it depends on how you calculate it. Deaths per journey, the calculation that really matters, are higher for planes than most forms of transport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety

[Simon]

Go to it ts! Your logic and open-mindedness does you credit. As does the non-hysterical and non-bigoted way that you have expressed your views throughout the thread.

But I feel that you should accept that you do not have the definitive wisdom, depth of insight and access to detailed research on the subject that the OP clearly possesses.

We are indeed all most fortunate that he is willing to spare us the time to put us straight so unequivocally.

bws S-S!

[Vile Consort]

Open-mindedness is one thing: ignoring the evidence is another.

Being open-minded is surely to be open to having your opinion changed by evidence. The efficaciousness of medical treatments is something that can be measured: it is not a matter of opinion.

[amateur51]

You wouldn't think so, judging by the hysterical fear of homeopathy that has dominated this thread. it has has quite a different effect on me. Yesterday I bought a small bottle of a homeopathic remedy I used years ago. It may have helped me then, and it may help me now. Or it may not. But it's unlikely to do me any harm.

Unless you have, and I sincerely hope that you don't, a condition that needs urgent allopathic treatment, EA. In which case, delay may prove serious.