Charlies dodgy influence strikes again

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  • Resurrection Man

    Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
    ....
    People who do not complete courses are responsible (1) for allowing more active bacteria to survive than could do, with the risk of reinfection, and (2) for introducing more antibiotics into the system than needs to be the case, giving a greater chance of resistance occurring because the antibiotics they do take are less effective or even useless.
    I must confess that that is what I thought I had written !

    Comment

    • Julien Sorel

      Originally posted by Resurrection Man View Post
      THE danger to the individual is that the infection will recur, and will be more difficult to treat when it does. The danger to the rest of us is that the general population of the infecting bacterium will become more resistant to the antibiotic concerned. If you fail to complete a course of antibiotics, some of the bacteria causing the infection may survive - and these will be the ones with the greatest resistance to the antibiotic. This is an unnatural version of natural selection, and will result in the bacterial population in the afflicted patient having a higher than normal resistance to that antibiotic. As the surviving bacteria reproduce, the resulting infection would not be treatable with the same antibiotic. If the infection is passed on to someone else, their infection will also be resistant to the antibiotic.
      Thanks for the explanation (and to Pabmusic for his explanation). It was a genuine rather than rhetorical question .

      Comment

      • Pabmusic
        Full Member
        • May 2011
        • 5537

        Originally posted by Resurrection Man View Post
        I must confess that that is what I thought I had written !
        Yes. I was supporting you (my only quibble was with one word).

        Comment

        • Resurrection Man

          Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
          Yes. I was supporting you (my only quibble was with one word).

          Comment

          • amateur51

            Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
            Yes, but it is pure natural selection, rather than an unnatural form.

            After any course of antibiotics, there may still be bacteria left - not enough yet to reach an active level (so the infection is 'cured') but some nevertheless. Some may be alive still because they were never exposed to the antibiotic anyway, but (and here's the natural selection bit) some may have been exposed, but carry a mutation that gives protection against the antibiotic. It only takes one bacterium to carry such a mutation and, all other things being equal, over time the proportion of bacteria carrying the mutation will increase within the population until it becomes the dominant form. Hence resistance.

            People who do not complete courses are responsible (1) for allowing more active bacteria to survive than could do, with the risk of reinfection, and (2) for introducing more antibiotics into the system than needs to be the case, giving a greater chance of resistance occurring because the antibiotics they do take are less effective or even useless.
            When I was writing prescriptions for antibiotics, I was trained to tell the patient to take a double ('loading') dose initially so that the therapeutic blood level of antibiotic is established pretty quickly. Some antibiotics have to be taken with food,too. It's a tricky business sometimes and I don't have experience of modern antibiotics at all.

            Comment

            • umslopogaas
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 1977

              #103 teamsaint, why do you claim that drug companies will not invest in developing new antibiotics? Of course, this is an expensive business and finding new ones is difficult, but the rewards are great. If they have a new drug that will work where the old ones fail, they are in the money, and if they dont have a new one, people will stop buying their old ones that dont work anymore and they will go out of business. My understanding is that they put an awful lot of money into such research, though no doubt they are very cagey about discussing it.

              Comment

              • teamsaint
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 25190

                Originally posted by umslopogaas View Post
                #103 teamsaint, why do you claim that drug companies will not invest in developing new antibiotics? Of course, this is an expensive business and finding new ones is difficult, but the rewards are great. If they have a new drug that will work where the old ones fail, they are in the money, and if they dont have a new one, people will stop buying their old ones that dont work anymore and they will go out of business. My understanding is that they put an awful lot of money into such research, though no doubt they are very cagey about discussing it.
                I am just pointing out something that has been widely reported in the mainstream media.

                The rise of untreatable gonorrhoea means funding for research into new drugs is crucial, a leading expert says in this week's Scrubbing Up.

                Scientists to search previously untapped deep sea trenches in the Arctic and Antarctic oceans for new bacteria to make new antibiotic drugs against superbugs.


                Here are 3 respectable looking links.

                It seems that they are more interested in drugs for chronic conditions.
                I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                I am not a number, I am a free man.

                Comment

                • Pabmusic
                  Full Member
                  • May 2011
                  • 5537

                  Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
                  When I was writing prescriptions for antibiotics, I was trained to tell the patient to take a double ('loading') dose initially so that the therapeutic blood level of antibiotic is established pretty quickly. Some antibiotics have to be taken with food,too. It's a tricky business sometimes and I don't have experience of modern antibiotics at all.
                  Sounds like a good practice. Are you Dr Ams, Ams?

                  Comment

                  • amateur51

                    Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
                    Sounds like a good practice. Are you Dr Ams, Ams?
                    Patient: Oh are you a doctor then?

                    Hancock: Nah, I never really bothered

                    (The Blood Donor Galton & Simpson)

                    Aeons ago I trained as a dentist, Pabs.

                    That usually brings the conversation to a juddering halt

                    Comment

                    • Pabmusic
                      Full Member
                      • May 2011
                      • 5537

                      Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
                      ...Aeons ago I trained as a dentist, Pabs..
                      I've always been scared of dentists.

                      Comment

                      • MrGongGong
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 18357

                        Originally posted by amateur51 View Post

                        Aeons ago I trained as a dentist, Pabs.

                        That usually brings the conversation to a juddering halt
                        can I have a go in your Porsche ?

                        Comment

                        • amateur51

                          Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                          can I have a go in your Porsche ?
                          If you'll be my carer for the day, I can get you into the British Museum free

                          Comment

                          • Deckerd

                            No GP would tell a patient to take a double dose to start off now. That's almost in the realms of an Old wives' tale and yet I still know of people who do it religiously. There are so many different antibiotics, there are an almost equivalent amount of folklore that goes with them. I don't know how many people I've heard say to me "I'm on antibiotics so I can't drink alcohol" without actually looking at the instructions in the box - ever.

                            Comment

                            • MrGongGong
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 18357

                              So back OT (slightly)
                              given that we know that sometimes
                              antibiotics are misused
                              what has that got to do with faith healing being available and endorsed by the NHS ?

                              There are some interesting things here

                              This is a list of topics in which we have found stories where a lack of critical thinking has caused unnecessary harm, death, injury, hospitalizations, major financial loss or other damages.



                              how come James Rhandi still has his $ million ?
                              not hard to work out why he does really .........

                              Comment

                              • amateur51

                                Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                                So back OT (slightly)
                                given that we know that sometimes
                                antibiotics are misused
                                what has that got to do with faith healing being available and endorsed by the NHS ?

                                There are some interesting things here

                                This is a list of topics in which we have found stories where a lack of critical thinking has caused unnecessary harm, death, injury, hospitalizations, major financial loss or other damages.


                                how come James Rhandi still has his $ million ?
                                not hard to work out why he does really .........
                                The Great Randi socks it to homeopathy

                                Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

                                Comment

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