Charlies dodgy influence strikes again

[gingerjon]

Of course it didn't.

It knew nothing whatsoever about what was being administered to it. It had no preconceptions about what effect it was supposed to have.

The placebo effect does not work on animals.

Think about it.

It probably knows what a vet looks like though. There's a good chance it's been to one before and knows what is likely to happen there.

I mean, my cat (the one who couldn't work out how to use an open cat flap) figured out that getting into the basket meant going to the vet and was pretty clear on letting her feelings be known.

Plus, of course, the dog may very well have got better after visiting the diluted vet because that's what it was going to do anyway.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Of course it didn't.

It knew nothing whatsoever about what was being administered to it. It had no preconceptions about what effect it was supposed to have.

The placebo effect does not work on animals.

Think about it.

But I do recall seeing a farmer on TV a few years ago who strongly and pretty convincingly argued that homeopathic remedies had been brilliantly successful in preventing mastitis in his dairy herd!
(More things in heaven and on earth?)

[jean]

I mean, my cat (the one who couldn't work out how to use an open cat flap) figured out that getting into the basket meant going to the vet and was pretty clear on letting her feelings be known.

And what were those feelings, exactly? I bet she wasn't keen.

From the rumours she'd heard, there was less chance of being cured than of being put down.

[jean]

But I do recall seeing a farmer on TV a few years ago who strongly and pretty convincingly argued that homeopathic remedies had been brilliantly successful in preventing mastitis in his dairy herd!
(More things in heaven and on earth?)

Exactly - that was my point.

(You didn't need that but.)

[teamsaint]

The NHS should provide treatment that actually works, and the general public are not the people who are qualified to decide what works, so they should not be prescribed magic water because they have an erroneous belief that it does. Doctors should not make the same mistakes as their patients.

If conventional medicine sometimes doesn't work, it does not follow that quack medicine does, so your second comment is irrelevant!

No, my second comment is not irrelevant. All treatments offered need to be assessed , in a variety of ways. If conventional treatments are not working, or being poorly adminstered, then they need careful scrutiny.

I agree that doctors should not make the same mistakes as their patients. Sadly,In the case of antibiotics, for just one example, they frequently do.
And IMO it is really important that the public do have a say in the kinds of treatment offered.It is our money,our NHS, not the doctors. They know a lot, but they don't know everything, and there are choices to be made.

[gingerjon]

And what were those feelings, exactly? I bet she wasn't keen.

No, she wasn't keen. Hence why it was clear what she thought. But she knew what a vet was.

She did have preconceptions.

[gingerjon]

it is really important that the public do have a say in the kinds of treatment offered

90% of people don't believe homeopathy has any place in the NHS.

Thankfully, in the interests of fairness, there is a central homeopathy budget of several million pounds and a handful of GPs prepared to prescribe homeopathic remedies.

Any more than that and we'd probably run out of magic sticks.

[teamsaint]

90% of people don't believe homeopathy has any place in the NHS.

Thankfully, in the interests of fairness, there is a central homeopathy budget of several million pounds and a handful of GPs prepared to prescribe homeopathic remedies.

Any more than that and we'd probably run out of magic sticks.

I am not sure I agree with you numbers,from what I have seen, but the principle is fair enough.
There are a lot of other questions to be asked of the NHS
Doctors prescribing oral retinoids to vulnerable young people, without very serious consideration is one such issue. There are plenty of similar issues.

[scottycelt]

There is no evidence that Prince Charles was involved personally in the lobbying.

Hmmm, that struck me as well.

Nice to note that somebody else actually read the carefully-worded newspaper report.

It was deliberately and mischievously intended to involve Prince Charles in something in which he appears to have had no personal involvement.

One can support, say, Oxfam without going along with every single statement it makes or policy it promotes..

[Pabmusic]

...I agree that doctors should not make the same mistakes as their patients. Sadly,In the case of antibiotics, for just one example, they frequently do...

The over-use of antibiotics has been scandalous, but it has largely been due to the misunderstanding over the last 60-70 years (hostility towards it in the USA) of evolution by natural selection. Penicillin was a wonder drug in 1940, but almost useless by 1965 - pure natural selection at work before our eyes. And yet evolution is still not taught in schools to any appreciable depth even in the UK, whereas it is actively undermined in parts of the US.

[amateur51]

No, she wasn't keen. Hence why it was clear what she thought. But she knew what a vet was.

She did have preconceptions.

Is that code for neutering?

[amateur51]

There is no evidence that Prince Charles was involved personally in the lobbying.


That gives the game away and renders this article, in its entirety, an irrelevance.

Yet another boring example of this newspaper's petty and futile republicanism.

There is some evidence, Mandy. How much do you require and of what sort?

[umslopogaas]

Not totally useless, Pabmusic. I was working in Papua New Guinea in the mid 1970s when I was bitten on the leg by the neighbour's dog and developed blood poisoning. Five days in the local hospital and twenty shots of penicillin in the bum werent much fun, but they cured me. I think it was the unregulated over-use of penicillin in some sectors that led to the widespread resistance problems?

Interesting comment about teaching evolution in UK schools. When I was a lad (1960s) it was certainly a big part of my A level biology course. Has it now been downgraded?

[Pabmusic]

Not totally useless, Pabmusic. I was working in Papua New Guinea in the mid 1970s when I was bitten on the leg by the neighbour's dog and developed blood poisoning. Five days in the local hospital and twenty shots of penicillin in the bum werent much fun, but they cured me. I think it was the unregulated over-use of penicillin in some sectors that led to the widespread resistance problems?

Interesting comment about teaching evolution in UK schools. When I was a lad (1960s) it was certainly a big part of my A level biology course. Has it now been downgraded?

Not really - in the UK the situation's not so bad, actually; I suppose I meant that it should be one of the keystones of education, not just for biology A level. It's in the USA where it's truly scandalous.

My daughter (28 years old) caught scarlet fever last year, and she was prescribed penicillin. Her doctor told her that scarlet fever one of the few occasions when penicillin is useful now.

[amateur51]

The over-use of antibiotics has been scandalous, but it has largely been due to the misunderstanding over the last 60-70 years (hostility towards it in the USA) of evolution by natural selection. Penicillin was a wonder drug in 1940, but almost useless by 1965 - pure natural selection at work before our eyes. And yet evolution is still not taught in schools to any appreciable depth even in the UK, whereas it is actively undermined in parts of the US.

When I was studying pharmacology in the 1970s we were told stories about the wonder-drug nature of penicillin, such that during the Korean war a surgeon about to close up an abdomen would sprinkle penicillin powder into the wound to ward off all & sundry bugs.

I think that those patients who demand antibiotics for every chesty cough and cold or flu have to take some responsibility for the over-use of anti-biotics. Fortunately GPs do seem tio have become more assertive about this.