Chethams and the RNCM

[Mr Pee]

I agree that a public forum is not really the place to discuss such matters the details of which we know next to nothing .

I think the definitions of what can and can't be discussed have been fairly exhaustively laid out by FF and others. As a general discussion, without naming names or bandying about allegations, then this is certainly of interest to me and I would think to others, who may be music teachers themselves or who attended any of the institutions named so far.

One of those mentioned in connection with this affair was a visiting professor at my college, and I have worked less frequently with one other; and a number of contemporaries of mine have begun reminiscing about their college experiences on other public forums, Facebook for one. I dare say other members may have had at least a passing acquaintance with some of those mentioned. Ahinton clearly has.

There are also all sorts of allegations against named individuals and institutions being aired on Norman Lebrecht's blog, something that has not been happening here.

My intention in starting this thread was primarily to bring this to the attention of any members who may not have been aware of it, and from that to raise the wider question of the the individualised nature of music tuition and how careful both student and teacher must be to respect the boundaries of that relationship. The potential dreadful consequences if that does not happen have been all-too clearly demonstrated in recent events, which is why- at the risk of being accused of misconstruing- I cannot agree with Mr.GG's comment above. Age is not the issue here. You only have to read some of the accounts by those who were allegedly abused to see that.

[MrGongGong]

Well done mrPee you did misconstrue as predicted
Abusive relationships are unnacceptable in all cases. I never suggested anything else

[amateur51]

I agree that a public forum is not really the place to discuss such matters the details of which we know next to nothing .

It is also striking that some of those correctly urging caution now, and some even apparently offering what amounts to part-excusing certain illegal behaviour, do not apply the same exemplary standards to similar cases in other institutions, and indeed almost enthusiastically weigh-in with ignorant, ill-informed contributions.

No double-standards please!

I'll gladly check my standards when the principal 'other' institution to which you refer examines its own hypocrisy in these matters, scotty

[Nick Armstrong]

Normal service has been resumed I see, with little skirmishes breaking out on the sidelines, the familiar 'whooosh' of whirled handbags...

It's reassuring, somehow...

[Mr Pee]

Normal service has been resumed I see, with little skirmishes breaking out on the sidelines, the familiar 'whooosh' of whirled handbags...

It's reassuring, somehow...

I think it is a shame, personally. On this of all subjects.

I admitted that I had probably misconstrued Mr.GG's post. If so I am sorry, but it seems to suggest that there are degrees of unacceptability, depending on age.

[doversoul1]

Mr Pee
I think the difference is that young women of 16 or 18 could be made aware of the complex relationship between a tutor and a pupil that has always been recognised in any teaching situation, before they take up the position, whereas you cannot do this with young children. How this should be differently treated is another matter.

[ed] this is about the difference and not in the least to suggest that young women should always be responsible for their own affairs.

[Mr Pee]

This has just been posted on Facebook by The Violin Channel:-

A violin teacher at Chetham's School of Music and the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester has been arrested. Wen Zhou Li is one of six current or former teachers from Chetham's and the RNCM who are being investigated by officers from Greater Manchester police's public protection unit. A spokeswoman for the RNCM has said: "Wen Zhou Li has been suspended from the college. I can't comment further at this time".

[Nick Armstrong]

This has just been posted on Facebook by The Violin Channel:-

I do think (as I stated many messages ago ) that we should only refer to

reputable sources (i.e. which themselves will have been the subject of legal clearance i.e. papers or the main TV and radio stations)

Quoting from postings on blogs or facebook will not have been seen by any lawyer before publication (I suspect the same is true of "The Violin Channel", whatever that is) and is hence risky.

In this instance it reproduces a Guardian piece so there is no problem - but please folks, be careful - this mod is going to be out of the loop largely from tomorrow evening for a few days.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/fe...acher-arrested

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i am concerned that this thread endangers the entire forum ... and i fully appreciate the serious and well meaning intent of the initial posts and following discussions; but it places both a weight of concern and monitoring on moderators and hosts such that i would ask posters here to ask themselves ... 'is that fair?'

[Nick Armstrong]

i am concerned that this thread endangers the entire forum ... and i fully appreciate the serious and well meaning intent of the initial posts and following discussions; but it places both a weight of concern and monitoring on moderators and hosts such that i would ask posters here to ask themselves ... 'is that fair?'

I do think that now, with fresh arrests, there is indeed an argument for saying that although in principle it is of course a perfectly proper subject for public debate, in practice a forum such as this just cannot safely be the location for such a debate, since with ongoing arrests and hence issues of contempt of court (an IMPRISONABLE offence! ) as well as libel etc etc, it cannot be appropriately policed here.

[french frank]

On advice then, thread closed. Once arrests and charges are made the whole legal situation changes.