Chethams and the RNCM

[Mr Pee]

Following on from the dreadful suicide of Frances Andrade after her cross-examination, it seems that more and more unsavoury allegations are emerging from Chethams, and the RNCM is also having to face some awkward questions:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/10/pupils-accuse-third-teacher-abuse-school

Certainly the appointment of Malcolm Layfield seems to have been controversial at the time; and the former principal does not seem to have handled the matter very well, judging by the correspondence that has been made public over the last few days.

There is no doubt that the music student/teacher relationship is perhaps by its very nature an unusually close and individualised one, perhaps more so than in any other discipline, and is therefore susceptible to abuse by those who are so inclined. There is no doubt that the reputation of both Chet's and the RNCM have been tarnished by all this.

I hope that, if any allegations are to face further investigation, the alleged victims are handled more sympathetically than was the case with Frances Andrade; but of course this raises the whole question of the manner in which witnesses are treated when under cross-examination.

[ahinton]

Following on from the dreadful suicide of Frances Andrade after her cross-examination, it seems that more and more unsavoury allegations are emerging from Chethams, and the RNCM is also having to face some awkward questions:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/10/pupils-accuse-third-teacher-abuse-school

Certainly the appointment of Malcolm Layfield seems to have been controversial at the time; and the former principal does not seem to have handled the matter very well, judging by the correspondence that has been made public over the last few days.

There is no doubt that the music student/teacher relationship is perhaps by its very nature an unusually close and individualised one, perhaps more so than in any other discipline, and is therefore susceptible to abuse by those who are so inclined. There is no doubt that the reputation of both Chet's and the RNCM have been tarnished by all this.

I hope that, if any allegations are to face further investigation, the alleged victims are handled more sympathetically than was the case with Frances Andrade; but of course this raises the whole question of the manner in which witnesses are treated when under cross-examination.

I was first alerted to this on Norman Lebrecht's blog on which there are now some five or six different strands that you can read, along with the various comments that these have generated, which add up to a fearsome amount of evidence and other suggestion that this koind of thing in music education establishments is not merely rife but, over the years, seems to have become almost endemic.

I have desisted from drawing attention to this on forums for obvious reasons, especially as I know and have worked with Mrs Andrade's husband Levine (who is one of the very finest viola players I have heard), my heart goes out to him and his four children and I cannot imagine what they're going through right now.

In addition to the appalling abuse itself and the effect that it can have on its victims throughout life, the issues that recent developments have revealed include the widespread covering up of such incidents when reported and the handling of them when they are reported, not only by heads of academic establishments and the perpetrating staff but also by the police, the court system and the judiciary. I don't wish to write more; my thoughts as already expressed may be read on that blog under the various different headings and, if you have anything that you'd like to ask, please feel free to PM me.

I understand that the pianist Ian Pace has been researching this dreadful history and is proposing to launch a public petition for the purpose of drawing appropriate attention to the conduct and handling of such matters at the institutions where the incidents occur, as well as the matter of how they're handled by the various professionals when they do come to light. I note also that an ex-Solicitor-General is likewise calling for a review of all of this and I believe that at least the Andrade case has been drawn to the attention of the Home Secretary.

[jean]

One of the most shocking aspects of this case for me was the revelation that the police had advised Frances Andrade not to have any form of therapy until after the trial, for fear of 'contaminating' her evidence - this even after she had already made several suicide attempts.

[DracoM]

The Guardian published some correspondence. The RNCM Principal of the day's apparent replies to the likes of Martin Roscoe's / Kathryn Stott's letters simply beggar belief.

[ahinton]

One of the most shocking aspects of this case for me was the revelation that the police had advised Frances Andrade not to have any form of therapy until after the trial, for fear of 'contaminating' her evidence - this even after she had already made several suicide attempts.

Indeed; Greater Manchester Police have formally denied that they gave Mrs Andrade any such advice and have apparently sought to defray that responsibility in the direction of Surrey Police whom they have stated might have given her this advice. I am not aware that the facts of this are yet known, but they most certainly should be and, if it is shown that the police did indeed do what's being alleged, that is a very grave matter indeed. The Andrade home is in Surrey and this is why it was Surrey Police who turned up unannounced on its doorstep to question Mrs Andrade, apparently for three hours. The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) also deny having given Mrs Andrade advice not to seek any form of therapy until after the trial; they've additionally sought to exonerate themselves from all inappropriate behaviour in their involvement in the case, yet it is clear that their statement that there was no question of Mrs Andrade's willingness to proceed with participation in the trial was true as far as it went, this is clearly because she felt that, once the case had been drawn to the attention of the police and CPS, she had a moral obligation to go ahead and tell the unvarnished truth that she'd have preferred to have kept under wraps and indeed had done so for years.

Mr Andrade and his four children need all the support that they can get.

[VodkaDilc]

I had noticed that the Brewer case had not been discussed here and thought that it was deemed inappropriate - especially after the unfortunate thread concerning another "conductor who strayed" in the last couple of weeks.

Isn't the forum on equally dodgy ground here?

[jean]

Who was the person who spoke on the radio, seeming to take responsibility for this advice to Mrs Andrade?

I also think - never having been in this situation myself, admittedly - that the sort of cross-examination to which she was subject (being called a liar and a fantasist, for example) must have been that much m ore distressing when the defending barrister was a woman.

[ahinton]

I had noticed that the Brewer case had not been discussed here and thought that it was deemed inappropriate - especially after the unfortunate thread concerning another "conductor who strayed" in the last couple of weeks.

Isn't the forum on equally dodgy ground here?

That will perhaps largely depend on what gets posted in this thread, unless FF decides that it should be dispensed with altogether; there's now a plethora of media publicity about the whole business and so it's not easy to ignore - nor indeed should it be, given the sheer gravity of this case and the apparent widespread incidence of this kind of thing elsewhere. It's come at a time when the first Savile revelations have already sparked off literally hundreds of others and the fact that this has now given rise to many investigations has also helped similar allegations against other people to rise to the surface.

[Mr Pee]

I had noticed that the Brewer case had not been discussed here and thought that it was deemed inappropriate - especially after the unfortunate thread concerning another "conductor who strayed" in the last couple of weeks.

Isn't the forum on equally dodgy ground here?

I am aware that one needs to be extremely careful when commenting on such cases; I was very careful in my choice of words in the initial OP.

But the possibility of a number of different cases at Chets, and the extraordinay correspondence over the appointment of Malcolm Layfield to the RNCM, are surely of interest. I have ex-colleagues from the RAF who were at Chets during this time period; and friends from my student days at TCM where Mr Layfield conducted the Chamber Orchestra at that time.

And when one reads Norman Lebrecht's blog, as Ahinton mentioned, and the various comments and recollections there by others, then it does make for disturbing- and incriminating- reading. Far more so than anything that might be posted here.

[Nick Armstrong]

I had noticed that the Brewer case had not been discussed here and thought that it was deemed inappropriate - especially after the unfortunate thread concerning another "conductor who strayed" in the last couple of weeks.

Isn't the forum on equally dodgy ground here?

The subject is one for public debate in suitably circumspect and sensible terms, I think. If posters keep level heads and

1. stick to facts reported in reputable sources (i.e. which themselves will have been the subject of legal clearance i.e. papers or the main TV and radio stations), and

2. don't engage in or repeat speculative allegations (with or without names of individuals) whether of abuse or subsequent cover-up or ineptitude, or other wrong-doing

then there's no reason this thread need follow others to early obscurity...

[amateur51]

I am aware that one needs to be extremely careful when commenting on such cases; I was very careful in my choice of words in the initial OP.

I confess that when I saw your name against the OP I was filled with misgivings Peester, and yet I must congratulate you on the level-headed way in which you have addressed these important matters.

My initial anxiety was misplaced on this occasion

[amateur51]

The subject is one for public debate in suitably circumspect and sensible terms, I think. If posters keep level heads and

1. stick to facts reported in reputable sources (i.e. which themselves will have been the subject of legal clearance i.e. papers or the main TV and radio stations), and

2. don't engage in or repeat speculative allegations (with or without names of individuals) whether of abuse or subsequent cover-up or ineptitude, or other wrong-doing

then there's no reason this thread need follow others to early obscurity...

Many thanks for this wise counsel, Caliban

[MrGongGong]

I think there is a danger of several things getting mixed up here.
I wasn't in the least but surprised by what has come out about Chets , amongst musicians it has been well known as a place (in that time ) with some decidedly "screwed up" people ,(which include some I know very well). This is a very nasty business and one would hope that those responsible are held responsible.

What appears to be the story with the RNCM whilst distasteful wasn't that unusual (or even illegal) at the time. When I was a student in the 1980's there were many fellows who did similar things with staff and other adults. Whilst this is for some extremely damaging (as all relationships can be) what goes on with consent between adults is up to them. The key word in that is consent.

Times have changed, for a student to have a relationship with a member of staff is now a dismissible offence it wasn't in the 1980's.

It's a little worrying that the two things (inevitably as there are common characters involved) become seen as part of the same "story".
And like many others my sympathy and thoughts are with Mr Andrade and his family.

[amateur51]

Who was the person who spoke on the radio, seeming to take responsibility for this advice to Mrs Andrade?

I also think - never having been in this situation myself, admittedly - that the sort of cross-examination to which she was subject (being called a liar and a fantasist, for example) must have been that much m ore distressing when the defending barrister was a woman.

I think that may have been the newly-elected Police Commissioner for Surrey, jean.

The newly-elected Police Commissioner for Northumbria, Vera Baird gives some historical background to what advice was given to victims of such crimes in the past.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/09/frances-andrade-courts-son

[ahinton]

The subject is one for public debate in suitably circumspect and sensible terms, I think. If posters keep level heads and

1. stick to facts reported in reputable sources (i.e. which themselves will have been the subject of legal clearance i.e. papers or the main TV and radio stations), and

2. don't engage in or repeat speculative allegations (with or without names of individuals) whether of abuse or subsequent cover-up or ineptitude, or other wrong-doing

then there's no reason this thread need follow others to early obscurity...

Fair comment. That said, since there are other allegations published elsewhere, it does no harm merely to draw attention to the existence of such allegations, especially in a climate such as this where we'd likely have heard little in anything about any of it had it not been for the widespread publicity given to the Andrade case.