Gay marriage thread

[MrGongGong]

It's obvious that the catholic church cares much more for itself that anything else
surviving intact without any change is it's primary mode
the way in which they were prepared to abandon the welfare of children in favour of their own (nothing to do with Christianity) dogma when they closed several adoption agencies shows what sort of people they are at the top of this organisation.
and still it has this hold that makes it's acolytes unable to accept that there is anything fundamentally wrong .........

[scottycelt]

The ones you refer to as "It was reported last night that the Scottish Church has reported ALL abuse allegations to the police since 1999. There were 20 cases of alleged abuse by priests between 1985 and 1995. Some of these were reported to the police, others were removed to different parishes. The remainder were left presumably because the Church authorities felt there was insufficient reason to go further. That wouldn't happen now and hasn't since the end of last century. EVERY case is now reported to the police

And of course there's the case of Cardinal O'Brien about which The Tablet writes:

"Cardinal Keith O'Brien was summoned to Rome as early as October 2012 to answer charges of sexual impropriety. It was previously thought that allegations of misconduct had not emerged until February 23, when a story was published in the Observer describing unwanted sexual advances allegedly made by the cardinal against three serving priests and a then-seminarian in the 1980s.

However, The Tablet can report that after a priest lodged an allegation with the Congregation for Bishops, Cardinal O'Brien was asked to travel to Rome to answer the accusation.

The disclosure of the earlier complaint about Cardinal O'Brien's sexual conduct also casts a new light on the acceptance of his resignation last November.

Pope Benedict XVI, in anticipation of the cardinal's 75th birthday on March 17 2013, accepted his resignation nunc pro tunc, meaning "now, for later". However, once further allegations were made public, he accepted the cardinal's resignation with immediate effect on 25 February."

I read this to mean that the Pope knew about O'Brien in October last year but because his retirement was coming up he dicdided to let him off nunc pro tunc. No referral to the Scottish police, no referral to any secular police, no punishment except now of course we read that O'Brien is expected to live "like a hermit" and will be expected never to return to Scotland.

We (including the BBC, Mail & Telegraph et al) are not talking about the Cardinal's now self-confessed sexual dalliances but alleged cases of clerical child abuse in Scotland, 1985-95, amsey ... as you well know!

I note that O'Brien was appointed Archbishop of St Andrews & Edinburgh in 1985 so it is true that the child-abuse cases inevitably must have come to his attention.

If you are saying you would have little confidence in how the matters were dealt with then, your distinct lack of confidence might well have some justification and I might well share some of your doubts.

However, as it appears that some of these 20 historical claims were actually reported to the police, even all those years ago, this does seem to be largely media-hype, though not of course to the genuine victims of such abuse who have failed to receive justice from either Church or State.

That is not say that such child-abuse cases will never appear again in the Church, the NHS, the BBC or anywhere else ... we fervently hope not but public and institutional awareness is far greater now than it ever was in those days, so that is a huge step forward isn't it?

[scottycelt]

I remember the appalling miscarriage of justice that befell Stefan Kiszko very well, scotty but I can't see why you keep referring to it

It was the paltry fines imposed on Castree for child-abuse in the 1970s that was the point as you know only too well, amsey.

Have you any comment ... ?

[amateur51]

It was the paltry fines imposed on Castree for child-abuse in the 1970s that was the point as you know only too well, amsey.

Have you any comment ... ?

Sorry scotty telepathy not switched on. What has this got to do with Cardinal O'Brien getting off nunc pro tunc?

And how dare you play down the Cardinal's alleged crimes by describing them as 'sexual dalliances'. With that usage you nullify any progress you claim to have made as a result of all these revelations. You appear to be an unreformed bigot after all.

[Mr Pee]

You appear to be an unreformed bigot after all.

I'm not sure that Scotty is really the bigot here, Amateur:-

Noun 1. bigotry - the intolerance and prejudice of a bigot
dogmatism
intolerance - unwillingness to recognize and respect differences in opinions or beliefs
Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2012 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.

[amateur51]

I'm not sure that Scotty is really the bigot here, Amateur:-

Can anyone else hear a buzzing noise?

[Mandryka]

Sapphist singer Michelle Shocked speaks out AGAINST same-sex unions:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/mar/19/michelle-shocked-anti-gay-rant

....and in San Francisco, no less! You go, gal!

[amateur51]

Sapphist singer Michelle Shocked speaks out AGAINST same-sex unions:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/mar/19/michelle-shocked-anti-gay-rant

....and in San Francisco, no less! You go, gal!

And I thought that you were our resident expert on 'conflicted' people, Mandy

[Flosshilde]

No, just causing it.


Did you hear the Archbish of Cant's comments about same-sex couples? It was along the lines of 'I know some wonderful (or splendid or absolutely fabulous) gay partnerships, but still uphold the CofE's view of same-sex marriage'.

I turned to Mr Flossie & said 'Do you feel slightly patronised'?

[amateur51]

No, just causing it.


Did you hear the Archbish of Cant's comments about same-sex couples? It was along the lines of 'I know some wonderful (or splendid or absolutely fabulous) gay partnerships, but still uphold the CofE's view of same-sex marriage'.

I turned to Mr Flossie & said 'Do you feel slightly patronised'?

Yes I do wonder if Justin was such a spiffy choice - he seems very keen to make announcements. Mandy'll be along in a mo to throw in his two pennorth on the Archbish being conflicted, I'm sure

[Mandryka]

Yes I do wonder if Justin was such a spiffy choice - he seems very keen to make announcements. Mandy'll be along in a mo to throw in his two pennorth on the Archbish being conflicted, I'm sure

I believe he has confessed to some inner conflict, though only with regard to alcohol comsumption - a fine, masculine weakness to admit to! :)

[scottycelt]

I turned to Mr Flossie & said 'Do you feel slightly patronised'?

Oh, don't keep us all in utter suspense, what was Mr Flossie's reply, Mr Flossie ... ?

[Mr Pee]

Oh, don't keep us all in utter suspense, what was Mr Flossie's reply, Mr Flossie ... ?

I don't see why Mr or... Mr Flossie would be patronised by that comment. But there will always be some who can't wait for the slightest excuse to play the oppressed minority card and look for offence or discrimination where none exists.

[amateur51]

I don't see why Mr or... Mr Flossie would be patronised by that comment. But there will always be some who can't wait for the slightest excuse to play the oppressed minority card and look for offence or discrimination where none exists.

Yeah, right

It's not about you as it goes, PeeMeister

[Flosshilde]

I should add that Mr F's response was "Who cares what he says?"