Gay marriage thread

[ahinton]

Of course, I get it, the Magdalene Laundries were all made up by militant "secularists" to discredit the church ?
Your church has actively created and developed the Marian cult in order to oppress women by forcing them to have endless pregnancies and denying them many of the things that men have.

Whilst the first of these is indeed quite obviously not the case, I do think that the second represents some degree of exaggeration; it's the attitude to contraception (which I carelessly omitted from the list above and from a subsequent response to scotty) that can bring about an undesired consequence whose effect is then only exacerbated for Catholic women by reason for the Church's negative stance on abortion, whereas the Marian cult of which you write strikes me as having rather more to do with the promotion of this Immaculate Conception stuff and the sin and taint that it chooses to attach to human conception and childbirth. Whichever way one looks at it, though, it seems rather horrendously anti-human in general and anti-women in particular.

[MrGongGong]

Indeed ahinton I probably exaggerated a bit
BUT it's outrageous for the church to pretend in some kind of patronising "we know what's best for you dear" way that somehow that is "Valuing"
surely they need more of people like this ?

http://www.laviniabyrne.co.uk/Index/Home.html

(That's her with Scotty and MrPee in the bottom RH photo )

[ahinton]

Indeed ahinton I probably exaggerated a bit
BUT it's outrageous for the church to pretend in some kind of patronising "we know what's best for you dear" way that somehow that is "Valuing"

Indeed it is but, as along as it doesn't actually break any law in so doing (and I'm not necessarily suggesting that it doesn't), it's as entitled to continue to behave in this manner as are women, homosexuals, same-sex married couples and all those others who do not fall into these groups but who deplore such an official attitude as unrepresentative of Christian values to distance themselves from that Church as a consequence; this was the point that I was trying to put across to scotty - it's the Church pushing more and more people away from itself, which is entirely contrary to what it is supposed to do, for the Pope (and yes, I do know that we're in a temporary Papal interregnum right now!) is, after all, supposed to be the Vicar of Christ, is he not?

Indeed, if I have one overarching criticism of the Catholic Church in its determination to maintain it position on all of the issues that we've lately been discussing, it's that it presents itself as too much Church and not enough Christ.

[MrGongGong]

Indeed it is but, as along as it doesn't actually break any law in so doing (and I'm not necessarily suggesting that it doesn't), it's as entitled to continue to behave in this manner as are women, homosexuals, same-sex married couples and all those others who do not fall into these groups but who deplore such an official attitude as unrepresentative of Christian values to distance themselves from that Church as a consequence; this was the point that I was trying to put across to scotty - it's the Church pushing more and more people away from itself, which is entirely contrary to what it is supposed to do, for the Pope (and yes, I do know that we're in a temporary Papal interregnum right now!) is, after all, supposed to be the Vicar of Christ, is he not?

Indeed, if I have one overarching criticism of the Catholic Church in its determination to maintain it position on all of the issues that we've lately been discussing, it's that it presents itself as too much Church and not enough Christ.

I'm sure that they don't "break any law" but the Catholic church while propped up by women treats them dreadfully
and has (as you rightly point out) little to do with "Christ" and more to do with maintaining power

[scottycelt]

Getting away from the seemingly inevitable hysteria and back to the main topic ...

After myself being called 'a bigot' on this forum I did try to explain that some gays ... including prominent ones ... were themselves against the idea of 'gay marriage'. The idea that only the Catholic Church is opposed to this clearly 'political' move is false as I know from talking to neighbours who never go near a church (as far as I know).

The following link (apologies that it's from the Mail, but let's face it I doubt you'd ever see this in the Forum Bible) illustrates the gross absurdity of the 'bigotry' charge and the 'equality' claim.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2158416/I-m-gay-man-opposes-gay-marriage-Does-make-ME-bigot--Mr-Cameron.html

[MrGongGong]

But Scotty the point is that the late departed cardinal IS a Bigot and a hypocrite
sure you can be not in favour of Equal Marriage without being bigoted but many of the religious objectors are bigoted in their views towards homosexual people
the EDL used to parade it's one Asian member on the streets as "evidence" that they weren't racists
they still are
the BNP also used to do the same they are also racists

[Flosshilde]

Yes, well, he is a self-confessed Conservative

It's always been a mystery to me why people should join, or claim allegiance to, groups that actively oppress them.

Scotty, you expessed anger & pain over Keith O'Brien's actions, yet you continue to trot out the same old tired arguments in defence of your church. Did you learn any lessons? did it give you any pause for thought that there might be something fundamentally wrong?

[MrGongGong]

It's always been a mystery to me why people should join, or claim allegiance to, groups that actively oppress them.

I guess you are unfamiliar with the world of BDSM then Flossie


(as I am also......... he added hastily )

[Flosshilde]

I guess you are unfamiliar with the world of BDSM then Flossie

Perhaps not as unfamiliar as you might think

(as I am also......... he added hastily )

Too hastily?

[Ferretfancy]

There's nothing common about my homosexual practice. & I intend to continue practicing until I'm perfect

Flosshilde
A lady of my acquaintance one referred to me as " having proclivities' I replied that I had relationships. There's still a long way to go, isn't there ?

[Mr Pee]

Flosshilde
A lady of my acquaintance one referred to me as " having proclivities' I replied that I had relationships. There's still a long way to go, isn't there ?

Is there? I have heterosexual proclivities. And sometimes relationships.

So what?

[Flosshilde]

The difference is, Pee, that no one would ask, or tell you, that you 'had proclivities'.

[ahinton]

Getting away from the seemingly inevitable hysteria and back to the main topic ...

After myself being called 'a bigot' on this forum I did try to explain that some gays ... including prominent ones ... were themselves against the idea of 'gay marriage'. The idea that only the Catholic Church is opposed to this clearly 'political' move is false as I know from talking to neighbours who never go near a church (as far as I know).

There's not a shred of hysteria in what I write here and I for one do not subscribe to the absurd notion that "only the Catholic Church is opposed to same-sex marriage". We all have different views, of course, but I believe that the passing of the gay marriage law in Britain was intended to try to represent a majority view and remove a restrictive practice from the gay community. If the Church continues to go against the majority grain in too many areas (i.e. this and the others that I've already put forward), its survival will inevitably become more difficult.

[Barbirollians]

I feel rather sorry for the Cardinal - it seems that like the closeted gay man who seeks to suppress his feelings by beating gay men up there is likely to have been some self-loathing in the vitriol of his anti-gay statements .

[Padraig]

[QUOTE=Barbirollians;269539]I feel rather sorry for the Cardinal QUOTE]

No harm in that Barbirollians.

I'm quite stunned by all the discussion and argument surrounding the whole debacle that is the current status of the Catholic Church, and 'feeling sorry' is a phrase that does comes easily. Take your pick where your sympathies lie.

If I can add a little homespun philosophy to the proceedings let me tell you a yarn that is true: as a Catholic myself I attended a funeral not long ago - one of increasingly regular occurence - and in the course of standing around in the graveyard chatting, someone said to the priest, 'Och, isn't it a pity of poor old Mary there. God help her, she'll be lost without him.' The priest, a grumpy enough fellow, replied, 'God help us all.'

Well said, Father.