Gay marriage thread

[amateur51]

As this thread spends more time off-topic than on, if there's a particular thread you wish to start, please do. I was merely responding directly to Flossie's comment. Pabmusic states the case accurately.

As the judge did at Vicky Pryce's first trial but it didn't stop the jury not following the argument. I think we have reached a stage in this society where we need some codification of our democracy, viz a written constitution and civics classes based thereon for all of us.

[french frank]

And how do you want to change this? Don't say PR because that would result in endless coalitions that nobody voted for.

I'm stumm, since I have been nicely reprimanded. Though when is the last time we had a government elected by a majority of the voters?

[Pabmusic]

As the judge did at Vicky Pryce's first trial but it didn't stop the jury not following the argument. I think we have reached a stage in this society where we need some codificatio of our democracy, viz a written constution and civics classes based thereon.

We really do need to teach people about our constitution (we have a written one, but it's written all over the place, a bit here, a bit there). Schools have a big responsibility here, but it goes further since very few adults understand anything about our constitution.

[Vile Consort]

I'm stumm, since I have been nicely reprimanded. Though when is the last time we had a government elected by a majority of the voters?

My comment was aimed at Mr GG and Am51 rather than you, FF.

[Flosshilde]

I was merely responding directly to Flossie's comment.

& I was responding to Mr Pee's. Strictly speaking you are correct, ff, but I think that most people voting for a candidate who is a member of a particular party do so in the expectation/hope that that party will form the government. During the last general election I suspect that very few people (except, possibly, people voting for Liberal Democrat candidates) hoped or expected a coalition to be formed. (and the majority of people voted against the Conservatives, who have formed a government with a bit of help from the LibDems - so in that sense the present government was not elected)

[amateur51]

Ben Summerskill, CEO of Stonewall, was interviewed on Today this morning and made the point that Cardinal O'Brien had theatened The Observer with legal action right up to the wire - now that's very nasty

Summerskill was at great pains not to sound triumphalist, which was good to hear.

[MrGongGong]

And how do you want to change this? Don't say PR because that would result in endless coalitions that nobody voted for.

I don't support any of them
but for people to insist that we somehow have a "democratically elected" government is simply wrong
BUT
Britain IS part of Europe

PR might give us coalitions that have a bit of humility rather than the current shower who have no mandate

[MrGongGong]

Ben Summerskill, CEO of Stonewall, was interviewed on Today this morning and made the point that Cardinal O'Brien had theatened The Observer with legal action right up to the wire - now that's very nasty

Summerskill was at great pains not to sound triumphalist, which was good to hear.

I heard that as well
though Cormac Murphy O'Connor was terrible

"To say there's always been corruption in the church – there's always been sinners in the church but there's always been saints."

Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor, who stepped down as Archbishop of Westminster in 2009, insisted that issues such as O'Brien's behaviour and the abuse of children by other Catholic clergy was due to the weakness of individuals rather than any structural or institutional failings by the church. (Guardian)

Scapegoating lives in the church it seems

[french frank]

During the last general election I suspect that very few people (except, possibly, people voting for Liberal Democrat candidates) hoped or expected a coalition to be formed. (and the majority of people voted against the Conservatives, who have formed a government with a bit of help from the LibDems - so in that sense the present government was not elected)

No, I can't have that (sorry Amsy ) - a hung parliament was the most likely result, judging by opinion polls, it was most likely to be the Tories that would have the largest number of MPs, and - forced by the press to say who he would favour - Clegg said he would 'speak first' with the party which had the clearest mandate.

The majority always votes against the the party which forms the government (unless it's a coalition!), whether they have an outright majority [of seats] or not. That is why many keep insisting that the current system is not 'fit for purpose' and there must be change. But as a result of the electoral referendum (on AV), the ERS have had considerable difficulties because the one system they have always backed - STV - can be disparaged by the anti-PR people with the same specious arguments.

[ahinton]

We do have a democratically elected Government. It was elected at erm....the last general election.

Democratically elected it may have been, but one might well question the extent to which it can be deemed to be a government, especially since the LibDems have to (and indeed just did) cast side all sense of coalition when fighting a by-election.

[ahinton]

UKIP is not so against same-sex marriage, they simply don't agree with it (although many party members and supporters agree with SSM). Any political party's stance on SSM has nothing to do with their position on the degree to which government should interfere with people's lives.

OK, but won't the passage of the same sex marriage law have the effect of ending some interference in certain people's lives rather than imposing it upon them?

You lefties often display this sort of lazy thinking.

You lefties also like to interfere with people's lives.

"Lefties" did not draft this legislation or debate it in the House of Commons or subsequently submit it for House of Lords consideration, although thee is ample evidence to suggest support for it right across the political spectrum.

For example, you haven't got a clue about fox hunting, but you want to run all over the land banning them and telling people what to do!

As I indicated above, the same sex marriage legislation is intended not to impose but to remove a restriction, so the comparison with legislation in respect of the hunting of foxes using hounds is hardly pertinent, really. Personally, I find foxhunting not merely repellent (that's just my view, although it's shared by many) but also a nuisance. Farmland is for farming, not for a sport so dubious as to have prompted Wilde famously to describe it in action as "the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable" and, to the extent that foxes present can on occasion present a problem for the often heavily cash-strapped and climate-terrorised farming community, it's up to that community to deal with it scientifically, efficiently and without cruelty. That said, it has always seemed a pity that legislation had to be introduced to discourage this antediluvian activity when it ought really to have been allowed to die its own death as a part consequence of farmers being permitted by law to shoot/taser foxes on their land.

[ahinton]

Originally Posted by MrGongGong View Post

and Britain isn't in Europe
Correct.

Really? You mean they've moved it? Where to? And why did no one tell me? And by how many kilometres has this move stretched the Channel Tunnel that famously turned the bard's "scepter'd isle" into "scepter'd promontory"?

Must watch the news more often so that I can keep up with these things...

[MrGongGong]

Must watch the news more often so that I can keep up with these things...

In spite of what Stephen Fry says on TV it's NOT a Theremin on Good Vibrations

[Beef Oven]

and Britain isn't in Europe

Finally, someone on the left/sandal-wearer/Bennite, actually understands that Britain is NOT in Europe

[amateur51]

Finally, someone on the left/sandal-wearer/Bennite, actually understands that Britain is NOT in Europe

What's this got to do with the OP?