Gay marriage thread

[scottycelt]

Bruckner 9, yes (3 or 4 movement version, scotty?) - but Bells? Surely you can do better than that - and surely you DESERVE better than that! Come on, now - a fine single malt es muss sein! - and I'll raise a glass of the same to you!

It has to be the 4-movement version for me now, ahinton. I've always thought the last music that Bruckner left lying around is quite extraordinary and is simply impossible to ignore. As Bruckner himself chopped and changed his symphonies I see no great reason to be a stubborn 'purist' in the matter and be over-sniffy about a 'completion'.Others, of course, will disagree.

I'm afraid I rather like common old Bells ... it's harsh rugged taste goes very well with this music.

[scottycelt]

scotty

Tonight's news must have cost you great pain. What can I say except to comment that the core beliefs of all of us survive what happens to institutions ?

Bws.
Ferret

Thank you, Ferret ... right now, I cannot but agree with you. O'Brien has a lot to answer for, hasn't he?

[MrGongGong]

UKIP is not so against same-sex marriage, they simply don't agree with it (although many party members and supporters agree with SSM). Any political party's stance on SSM has nothing to do with their position on the degree to which government should interfere with people's lives.

You lefties often display this sort of lazy thinking.

You lefties also like to interfere with people's lives. For example, you haven't got a clue about fox hunting, but you want to run all over the land banning them and telling people what to do!

I'm not a "lefty" you seem to be channeling Simon
and couldn't give a toss about fox hunting

"lazy thinking" ?

Any political party's stance on SSM has nothing to do with their position on the degree to which government should interfere with people's lives.

Of course it has, some gay people want to get married , some people want to stop them .........

[Beef Oven]

I'm not a "lefty" you seem to be channeling Simon
and couldn't give a toss about fox hunting

"lazy thinking" ?



Of course it has, some gay people want to get married , some people want to stop them .........

More interference required from the left. What other things do you want the government to legislate for. Voting rights for imprisoned paedophiles maybe?

You are a leftie, it doesn't make you a bad person, live with it

[MrGongGong]

More interference required from the left. What other things do you want the government to legislate for. Voting rights for imprisoned paedophiles maybe?

You are a leftie, it doesn't make you a bad person, live with it

Lazy Thinking matey
you been listening to Boris again (NOT that one )

I would like to Government to ban Adults smoking in cars with children in them
and stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia

but before that I would like a democratically elected government but there's as much chance of that as there is of the Pope coming out of the closet

[Mr Pee]

Lazy Thinking matey
you been listening to Boris again (NOT that one )

I would like to Government to ban Adults smoking in cars with children in them
and stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia

but before that I would like a democratically elected government but there's as much chance of that as there is of the Pope coming out of the closet

We do have a democratically elected Government. It was elected at erm....the last general election.

And which Pope is your lazy jibe referring to? Because at the moment there is no Pope. Unless you have a hotline to the Vatican and know what the result of the conclave is likely to be.

[MrGongGong]

We do have a democratically elected Government. It was elected at erm....the last general election.

and Britain isn't in Europe

[Flosshilde]

We do have a democratically elected Government. It was elected at erm....the last general election.

You can as much as you want, but the current government was not elected - there was no option on the ballot papers for a ConDem coalition, nor for a LabLib one, or any other grouping. Iit was formed after extensive discussions between political parties after the election failed to produce a party with a majority. If relations between the Liberals & Labour had been a bit better we could very well have had a completely (well, perhaps a slightly) different government, based on the same election results.

[Mr Pee]

and Britain isn't in Europe

Correct.

[french frank]

You can as much as you want, but the current government was not elected - there was no option on the ballot papers for a ConDem coalition, nor for a LabLib one, or any other grouping. Iit was formed after extensive discussions between political parties after the election failed to produce a party with a majority. If relations between the Liberals & Labour had been a bit better we could very well have had a completely (well, perhaps a slightly) different government, based on the same election results.

There is never an option on a ballot paper to 'vote for a government'. You vote for a person. Thereafter democracy, in the sense of your personal wishes as regards a future single government, play no part. You either get the candidate you voted for or you don't. FPTP does not show anything other than that people don't agree as to which party should govern the country. That's the 'democracy' we have.

If we had PR you would have more say, but that's because you are asked for your preference in order. This is what the "anti-PR" brigade at the referendum attacked as "some people having more than one vote'".

[amateur51]

UKIP is not so against same-sex marriage, they simply don't agree with it (although many party members and supporters agree with SSM). Any political party's stance on SSM has nothing to do with their position on the degree to which government should interfere with people's lives.

You lefties often display this sort of lazy thinking.

You lefties also like to interfere with people's lives. For example, you haven't got a clue about fox hunting, but you want to run all over the land banning them and telling people what to do!

Oh here we go, it's the lazy lefties

How lazy is THAT?

[Pabmusic]

There is never an option on a ballot paper to 'vote for a government'. You vote for a person. Thereafter democracy, in the sense of your personal wishes as regards a future single government, play no part. You either get the candidate you voted for or you don't. FPTP does not show anything other than that people don't agree as to which party should govern the country. That's the 'democracy' we have.

If we had PR you would have more say, but that's because you are asked for your preference in order. This is what the "anti-PR" brigade at the referendum attacked as "some people having more than one vote'".

This is very useful, FF. So few people understand how our system works and assume we elect a government. We elect the members of the House of Commons. The Queen appoints the person to form a government who can command a majority in the Commons. In theory that person doesn't have to be a member of the Commons, but that hasn't happened since Lord Salisbury (1895-1902). Actually, someone could be invited to form a government who's not a member of either house, if they could somehow command a Commons majority, but it's never happened.

[amateur51]

There is never an option on a ballot paper to 'vote for a government'. You vote for a person. Thereafter democracy, in the sense of your personal wishes as regards a future single government, play no part. You either get the candidate you voted for or you don't. FPTP does not show anything other than that people don't agree as to which party should govern the country. That's the 'democracy' we have.

If we had PR you would have more say, but that's because you are asked for your preference in order. This is what the "anti-PR" brigade at the referendum attacked as "some people having more than one vote'".

A nice answer french frank but there is a feeling abroad that the coalition was a case of the posh boys stitching things up for themselves in the national interest (of course) which did not necessarily have anything to do with democracy.

Should there ever be a repeat of the TV debates I think we'll see voters being much more insistent about clarity around which parts of the party manifestos are negotiable or aspirational and which parts are not in any coalition discussions. I doubt that the boys will get away with it so easily again.

Could I suggest that if you want to have a discussion on this, you should start a different thread?

[french frank]

Could I suggest that if you want to have a discussion on this, you should start a different thread?

As this thread spends more time off-topic than on, if there's a particular thread you wish to start, please do. I was merely responding directly to Flossie's comment. Pabmusic states the case accurately.

[Vile Consort]

And how do you want to change this? Don't say PR because that would result in endless coalitions that nobody voted for.