Gay marriage thread

[scottycelt]

""In recent days certain allegations which have been made against me have become public. Initially, their anonymous and non-specific nature led me to contest them.

"However, I wish to take this opportunity to admit that there have been times that my sexual conduct has fallen below the standards expected of me as a priest, archbishop and cardinal.

"To those I have offended, I apologise and ask forgiveness. To the Catholic Church and people of Scotland, I also apologise."

He must have known what the allegations referred to; when the details weren't public he was going to contest them; now they are public he apologises for his actions. So, when the details weren't known he was prepared to lie about it, & only admits the truth when one of the priests has 'gone public'? & this man was a priest, & held the highest office (indeed, still holds it) in the church below the pope?

So true, Flossie ...

There can be no excuses for this outrageous deceit and betrayal of such a precious trust. I have stoutly defended this man against the charge of 'bigotry' but the charges of 'fraud' and 'hypocrisy' (to an extreme degree) are now proven to be justified. His plea for 'forgiveness' sounds wholly unconvincing for the reasons you mention. He'll have to try a lot harder before Scottish Catholics will be in the mood for any sort of 'forgiveness'

I've been proved hopelessly wrong. Corruption in the Church is now evident at very high levels. Frankly, O'Brien's behaviour is thoroughly nauseating and I'm not easily nauseated. Catholics of all people are easily prepared to forgive human weakness but this goes much, much further than that.

Even I didn't quite 'buy' the official line for the Pope's resignation. I strongly suspect the job just got too much for him and he would have known about O'Brien. It is quite possible there is more filth to follow.

Pass the sick-bag ...

[MrGongGong]

I am (genuinely) sorry that you have been so betrayed by those you trusted Scotty.

[amateur51]

As a gay man d'un certain age, all this is terribly familiar, scotty which is why I have kept hammering away at it. Men who consistently abuse gay men ('the out & proud' gay ones) in particular and homosexuality in general are so often in dreadful conflict with themselves, their fantasies and their largely hidden actions. In one sense I feel for O'Brien - he must have been through a sort of hell - but he has put his victims through hell too. We must face up to the fact that the Pope Emeritus is in the same position, as are many Cardinals and others at all levels in the Catholic hierachy. It is quite clear that there has been a byzantine cover-up over decades, an attempt to hide the misdeeds of the powerful in the hierarchy.

I am in no way triumphalist about all this, other than I & others were right. It is a huge human tragedy of self-loathing, denial and self-persecution and subesquently the persecution of others. These men are products of their generation, a generation in which to be homosexual was completely unacceptable. In a way, the Cathoilic Church with its emphasis on celibacy has offered them sanctuary from investigation and wagging tongues. But their refusal to reach out to and embrace their secular brothers and sisters has led to their downfall. A human tragedy. They should be ashamed of what they have done but we have not need to punish them further, except of course where secular crimes have been committed against children and young adults, where justice must take its course. The world moved on decades ago; they were hiding from attitudes that for the greater part had disappeared a long time ago.

Perhaps the time has come for the Catholic Church to revisit its mission, to fight for those living in poverty, financial and spiritual. If this can be achieved then perhaps the Catholic Church has a place in the 21st century but the folly of an exclusively male-led institution that does not focus on the reality of the lives that humans lead today must be acknowledged.

I am now lost for words and I offer scotty and other Catholics on the Board my commiserations.

[Flosshilde]

Well said, Am. & I do appreciate what it must have taken for Scotty to write the post no.601.

[MrGongGong]

Well said, Am. & I do appreciate what it must have taken for Scotty to write the post no.601.

[scottycelt]

I am (genuinely) sorry that you have been so betrayed by those you trusted Scotty.

Thanks, Mr GG.

Not personally betrayed, of course, just a feeling of shock and anger at his betrayal of so many others who knew him and simply assumed a Cardinal led the life of a Cardinal and practiced what he preached.

Obviously, these days that might appear to be a rather naive assumption.

I'll now have an extra-large Bells and give Bruckner 9 a spin, I think.

That'll cheer me up.

[Pabmusic]

...a feeling of shock and anger at his betrayal of so many others who knew him and simply assumed a Cardinal led the life of a Cardinal and practiced what he preached...

It is unpleasant to realise this about someone you have admired, and I too should like to add my support to you over this 'betrayal'.

The unhappy truth is that Catholic priests are expected to live unnatural - celibate - lives and presumably face these pressures relentlessly. The rule about celibacy was a late addition to Catholic philosophy and ought now to be scrapped.

It's not just Catholics, of course, just that it's often more intense for them.

[scottycelt]

Thanks Flossie & Ams ... what else can I say?

Until the Church cleans up its act and gets rid of these frauds and impostors it won't get any more forum defence from me.

The case of O'Brien has proved the critics correct it is as simple as that. They were right, I was wrong.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven (no pun intended). It is now proven beyond doubt that corruption exists in the highest echelons of the Church. O'Brien has now been exposed. Will there be other frauds and impostors soon to be revealed? I wouldn't bet against it.

Truly shameful and appalling.

Anyway back to Bruckner 9 ...

[scottycelt]

It is unpleasant to realise this about someone you have admired, and I too should like to add my support to you over this 'betrayal'.

The unhappy truth is that Catholic priests are expected to live unnatural - celibate - lives and presumably face these pressures relentlessly. The rule about celibacy was a late addition to Catholic philosophy and ought now to be scrapped.

It's not just Catholics, of course, just that it's often more intense for them.

Thanks to you too, Pab ...

I think you'll understand if I say I'm going to shut up about religion for a bit. Relief all round and a salutary lesson in humility for me.

In future, I'll stick to something really uncontroversial like politics ...

[ahinton]

Well said, Am. & I do appreciate what it must have taken for Scotty to write the post no.601.

Yes, well said indeed and much appreciated and profoundly endorsed, as of course is the most welcome honesty and all else in scotty's post #601.

We all know that this kind of thing also occurs elsewhere than within the Roman Catholic Church; it's very much a current concern, especially with all the revelations, allegations et al that are now coming to the surface from a number of widely differing sources. It has to be stopped, once and for all, so that people can attend Church, send their children to a music school, listen to major broadcasting organisations' output and heaven knows what else without being made to feel obliged to fear that they ought not to trust any of what's being offered.

[ahinton]

Thanks, Mr GG.

Not personally betrayed, of course, just a feeling of shock and anger at his betrayal of so many others who knew him and simply assumed a Cardinal led the life of a Cardinal and practiced what he preached.

Obviously, these days that might appear to be a rather naive assumption.

I'll now have an extra-large Bells and give Bruckner 9 a spin, I think.

That'll cheer me up.

Bruckner 9, yes (3 or 4 movement version, scotty?) - but Bell's? Surely you can do better than that - and surely you DESERVE better than that! Come on, now - a fine single malt es muss sein! - and I'll raise a glass of the same to you!

[Ferretfancy]

scotty

Tonight's news must have cost you great pain. What can I say except to comment that the core beliefs of all of us survive what happens to institutions ?

Bws.
Ferret

[Beef Oven]

You really don't believe that do you

If (as i've said before) they REALLY believed in "democracy" they would be in favour of abolishing the unelected folk in the House of Lords and the Monarchy

I love the "replacing the tories"
that's a bit like replacing a dead donkey with a dead sheep (though having eaten both I guess the sheep might taste a bit better !)

If they were about "democracy" why is it that we only ever see mr Angrybuffoon and no one else ? (oh wait here comes Christine Hamilton )
Boris lite

and If the Kippers were about freedom and "light touch government" why are they so against gay people who want to get married ?

UKIP is not so against same-sex marriage, they simply don't agree with it (although many party members and supporters agree with SSM). Any political party's stance on SSM has nothing to do with their position on the degree to which government should interfere with people's lives.

You lefties often display this sort of lazy thinking.

You lefties also like to interfere with people's lives. For example, you haven't got a clue about fox hunting, but you want to run all over the land banning them and telling people what to do!

[Flosshilde]

The unhappy truth is that Catholic priests are expected to live unnatural - celibate - lives and presumably face these pressures relentlessly. The rule about celibacy was a late addition to Catholic philosophy and ought now to be scrapped.

Which wouldn't have helped O'Brien even if they weren't in force, unless the church's views on homosexuality also changed.

[Pabmusic]

Which wouldn't have helped O'Brien even if they weren't in force, unless the church's views on homosexuality also changed.

True, of course.