Gay marriage thread

[amateur51]

That's not really true, & I'm sure you know it, ff. Green & environmental campaigners protest about lobbying by industries involved in transport & power/energy, for example. There are protests about commercial healhcare providers lobbying the Dept of Health. Agreed that there is a lot of lobbying - but it's just not true that nobody complains about it.

Not forgetting Prince Chas of course, ardent lobbyist on a behalf of a number of causes and he wants to be known as 'Defender of the Faiths' when he becomes King.

[Flosshilde]

Eh? Not my comment, Floss.

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry (although I'm sure you do know it )


(Now edited to give the correct perpetrator of such nonsense.)

[jean]

I remember in Malta, standing in the street when the Corpus Christi procession passed by, as thousands of people fell on their faces while my friends and I stood there bewildered at what can only be called idolatry.

Those people are worshipping Christ, really present in the Sacrament, according to Catholic doctrine. They are not worshipping an image of something other than the actual body of Christ. Therefore what they are doing is not idolatry.

...Dogma datur christianis,
quod in carnem transit panis,
et vinum in sanguinem.
Quod non capis, quod non vides,
animosa firmat fides,
praeter rerum ordinem.

Sub diversis speciebus,
signis tantum, et non rebus,
latent res eximiae.
Caro cibus, sanguis potus:
manet tamen Christus totus
sub utraque specie...

And because I never like to pass up a chance for some plainsong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rxEWEektY

[scottycelt]

... I remember in Malta, standing in the street when the Corpus Christie procession passed by, as thousands of people fell on their faces ... I have also witnessed the queues to place requests on the nearly worn out toe of the statue of St Anthony in Padua ..

Ferret ... every year on the telly I see royalty, politicians and others laying flowers in front of of a big stone and then genuflecting, saluting or bowing to it before they leave.

Absolutely shocking.

[scottycelt]

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry (although I'm sure you do know it )


(Now edited to give the correct perpetrator of such nonsense.)

How dare you accuse French Frank of pinching my lines, Flossie ...

I was not suggesting (as you well know) that nobody complains about the content of any lobbying.

I merely suggested that every individual and organisation has the right to do so in our free society, and I doubt any true democrat would disagree with that.

However, it hardly comes as any great surprise that some of those who constantly howl about 'equality' and 'discrimination' on this forum are the very ones who appear to be disagreeing with that.

[Flosshilde]

I was not suggesting (as you well know) that nobody complains about the content of any lobbying.

Secular organisations 'lobby' the Government all the time that proposed bills shouldn't go ahead and nobody complains.

A little problem with your memory, or your use of English, Scotty?

[scottycelt]

A little problem with your memory, or your use of English, Scotty?

No problem with my memory and now I have clarified any apparent ambiguity, Flossie .

So what's your problem regarding an answer ... do you accept the Catholic Church in England & Wales and Scotland has the right to lobby the Government in common with other organisations or not?

It's a very straightforward question and to give you a bit of a clue there are only two possible (proper) answers!

[Ferretfancy]

Those people are worshipping Christ, really present in the Sacrament, according to Catholic doctrine. They are not worshipping an image of something other than the actual body of Christ. Therefore what they are doing is not idolatry.

...Dogma datur christianis,
quod in carnem transit panis,
et vinum in sanguinem.
Quod non capis, quod non vides,
animosa firmat fides,
praeter rerum ordinem.

Sub diversis speciebus,
signis tantum, et non rebus,
latent res eximiae.
Caro cibus, sanguis potus:
manet tamen Christus totus
sub utraque specie...

And because I never like to pass up a chance for some plainsong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rxEWEektY

jean, that's very helpful. So, it wasn't idolatry, just a bit of transubstantiation, it's always nice to see that reason prevails !

[Julien Sorel]

So what's your problem regarding an answer ... do you accept the Catholic Church in England & Wales and Scotland has the right to lobby the Government in common with other organisations or not?

If I could offer an answer? Yes, the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales and Scotland has the right to lobby the Government in common with other organisations. Generally organisations lobby governments over issues in which they have an interest (or in which, in a strong sense, they are interested). We're talking about secular marriages, not legislation which requires the Roman Catholic Church to marry same sex couples (in fact the new law will prohibit that). So unless the Roman Catholic Church owns marriage I don't see what interest it has in the matter. There are other marriages the Roman Catholic Church refuses to recognise, aren't there? My understanding is if a Roman Catholic marries in an Anglican church without permission from their Bishop (is that correct?) then in the eyes of your church they never married?

[Padraig]

just a bit of transubstantiation

You've been reading Aquinas, ferret, haven't you?
Oh, today, 7 March, is his feast day.

[jean]

Of course he has been reading Aquinas - I made sure of that by posting some.

(But I didn't realise it was his feast day!)

[amateur51]

How dare you accuse French Frank of pinching my lines, Flossie ...

I was not suggesting (as you well know) that nobody complains about the content of any lobbying.

I merely suggested that every individual and organisation has the right to do so in our free society, and I doubt any true democrat would disagree with that.

However, it hardly comes as any great surprise that some of those who constantly howl about 'equality' and 'discrimination' on this forum are the very ones who appear to be disagreeing with that.

You want 'howl'? I'll give you 'howl' scotty ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p_kKhRmRkM

[Padraig]

Of course he has been reading Aquinas - I made sure of that by posting some.

Beg pardon, Jean. Must keep up.

[Flosshilde]

No problem with my memory and now I have clarified any apparent ambiguity, Flossie .

So could you explain how the two statements that you posted don't contradict each other? Or/and how you have 'clarified' them?

[Flosshilde]

So what's your problem regarding an answer ...

Answer to what? you hadn't posed a question in either of the two posts I quoted from.

do you accept the Catholic Church in England & Wales and Scotland has the right to lobby the Government in common with other organisations or not?

Ah, now you ask a question.

& my answer is that I view lobbying by the Catholic Church in the same way that I view lobbying by any other organisation. But then the Catholic Church goes beyond that, in instructing its congregations to vote against politicians who support legislation the church opposes, for example.

Now, how about you answering a question I posed a while back - has the O'Brien debacle taught you any lessons, or given you any pause for thought? Or is it just shovel that one under the carpet & carry on as if nothing happened?