Gay marriage thread

[Bryn]

... [he] doesn't use "the F word" but a misogynistic embellishment thereof ...

I see an Oedipal implication of the repeated phrase, but what renders it misogynistic when compared to its use without reference to "mother"?

[scottycelt]

I agree entirely with Julien Sorel ..

Back on topic, the Coalition for Marriage group are claiming 55% of the votes cast in Eastleigh were for candidates opposed to 'gay marriage'.

I certainly believe this was a significant issue in the election and at least partly explains UKIP's unusual support as, with the LD's now in government, UKIP is now the obvious party of protest in by-elections.

Cameron's recent semi-rehabilitation with his backbenchers has already been destroyed. It would be ironic if traditional Tory voters deserted in droves to UKIP not over Europe but 'gay marriage'?

[amateur51]

I agree entirely with Julien Sorel ..

Back on topic, the Coalition for Marriage group are claiming 55% of the votes cast in Eastleigh were for candidates opposed to 'gay marriage'.

I certainly believe this was a significant issue in the election and at least partly explains UKIP's unusual support as, with the LD's now in government, UKIP is now the obvious party of protest in by-elections.

Cameron's recent semi-rehabilitation with his backbenchers has already been destroyed. It would be ironic if traditional Tory voters deserted in droves to UKIP not over Europe but 'gay marriage'?

Equal marriage as the wedge that splits asunder the Tories and the Catholic Church* - how truly wonderful

And the Anglicans* of course ;winkeye:

[Bryn]

I agree entirely with Julien Sorel ..

Oh I doubt that very much indeed. You are far more likely to have found some vague, superficial concurrence of views with him regarding but one message posted by him.

[french frank]

Back on topic, the Coalition for Marriage group are claiming 55% of the votes cast in Eastleigh were for candidates opposed to 'gay marriage'.

Most of them for UKIP. That's not to say that gay marrage was the reason they voted UKIP - it clearly wasn't.

[scottycelt]

Oh I doubt that very much indeed. You are far more likely to have found some vague, superficial concurrence of views with him regarding but one message posted by him.

Thanks for the clarification. Of course I was referring to a single post. He might be horrified that I happen to agree with it as well but there we go, it's a funny old world.

Don't get too concerned about the actual thread topic now, will you?

[Bryn]

Don't get too concerned about the actual thread topic now, will you?

Oh I'm not too concerned about folk do regarding erotically manifested partnerships. "Live and let live" is my motto regarding such matters. If they want the state or some mythical omnipotent authority to reinforce their loving commitments to each other, so be it.

[scottycelt]

Most of them for UKIP. That's not to say that gay marrage was the reason they voted UKIP - it clearly wasn't.

Well, we wouldn't expect the Guardian to mention anything about voters opposed to 'gay marriage', heavens no.

I didn't say there was one single reason why people voted for UKIP.

However, what I did suggest is that some (many?) did vote for UKIP with 'gay marriage' in mind.

If I had been resident in Eastleigh I may well have voted for UKIP myself, despite being an ardent pro-European.

Yes, it's becoming that desperate. Sometimes people have to scream to be even heard.

Now I expect the usual barrage of moralising 'liberal' tosh from the same old members ...

[amateur51]

Well, we wouldn't expect the Guardian to mention anything about voters opposed to 'gay marriage', heavens no.

I didn't say there was one single reason why people voted for UKIP.

However, what I did suggest is that some (many?) did vote for UKIP with 'gay marriage' in mind.

If I had been resident in Eastleigh I may well have voted for UKIP myself, despite being an ardent pro-European.

Yes, it's becoming that desperate. Sometimes people have to scream to be even heard.

Now I expect the usual barrage of moralising 'liberal' tosh from the same old members ...

Oh scotty and I thought you were a man who dealt only in FACTS.

But you don't have any, sadly, hence your resorting to abuse

French frank has already fired a shot across our bows so let's play nicely

[Julien Sorel]

Thanks for the clarification. Of course I was referring to a single post. He might be horrified that I happen to agree with it as well but there we go, it's a funny old world.

Don't get too concerned about the actual thread topic now, will you?

On the off chance it might spoil your weekend, I'm not in the least horrified .

On-topic, I agree with Bryn's #517. Incidentally, UKIP's view of same sex marriage isn't unambiguous http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-n...-marriage-bill

[french frank]

I didn't say there was one single reason why people voted for UKIP.

I wasn't quoting your view, I was quoting what you reported as the view of the Coalition for Marriage (I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't know who or what they are) vis-à-vis the '55% who voted for ... &c'. That is a specious argument unless you have evidence that 55% were therefore voting against gay marriage. They voted for the candidate, yes, but not necessarily for the single policy.

However, what I did suggest is that some (many?) did vote for UKIP with 'gay marriage' in mind.

Some way well have done, but not the 55%, quoting precisely by those in this aforementioned coalition who did their best to 'suggest' that too.

Now I expect the usual barrage of moralising 'liberal' tosh from the same old members ...

All you'll get from me - a Liberal Democrat - is that I celebrate the result (even if that does get a barrage of anything from anyone) by someone not against gay marriage. And a candidate who withstood all the campaigns calculated to help him towards defeat.

[amateur51]

All you'll get from me - a Liberal Democrat - is that I celebrate the result (even if that does get a barrage of anything from anyone) by someone not against gay marriage. And a candidate who withstood all the campaigns calculated to help him towards defeat.

I understand your celebration french frank and it is indeed a tribute to the superhuman effort and local organisation and the fortitude of local LibDems in the face of some shockingly bad local & national publicity. Both Conservatives and Labour must be aghast UKIP members seem to be in a semi-permanent state of hysteria at the present for reasons that are quite easy to understand but difficult to comprehend ... if you see what I mean

[Stephen Whitaker]

UKIP is not in support of proposals for full same-sex marriage on the basis that such a change in the law could mean that religious faith groups,
and places of worship (be it a church, synagogue or mosque, etc.) COULD be forced to perform a marriage that is incompatible with their religious beliefs.

In other words their only objection is that the EU might just overturn any protection for faith groups the UK's legislation enshrines.

So it boils down to a hypothetical objection based on a hypothetical outcome that might never happen.


The Eastleigh Tory candidate made it quite clear she would oppose equal marriage if elected the UKIP candidate did not.

[scottycelt]

On the off chance it might spoil your weekend, I'm not in the least horrified .

On-topic, I agree with Bryn's #517. Incidentally, UKIP's view of same sex marriage isn't unambiguous http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-n...-marriage-bill

Thank you ...

I've never been much of an apologist for UKIP. However. it does represent the genuine concerns of many regarding 'gay marriage' especially in relation to court action in Europe to force people to act against their principles on the grounds of 'discrimination'. Pabmusic raised a similar point earlier, though from a quite different angle to my own.

Cameron's meaningless assurances will not convince anyone, not least those who know a thing or two about the sinister reality of losing their jobs over their personal beliefs.

The deeply worrying curtailment of free speech and expression is already being applied by some of our little "liberal" tinpot dictators and here's one recent example from an impeccable forum source.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/03/01/scotland-police-chaplain-claims-to-have-been-forced-from-job-over-his-anti-gay-marriage-views/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Pinknews+(Pink+News)

[Bryn]

... The Eastleigh Tory candidate made it quite clear she would oppose equal marriage if elected the UKIP candidate did not.

Ah, so that's why the Tories came a desultory 3rd.