Richard the Third

[Nick Armstrong]

I could have done without so much Olivier, but a bit of Anthony Sher would have been nice:

I'm always pleased to hear the Olivier (I thought the juxtapositions were rather good - 'scarce half made up' over a shot of the skeleton in pieces), but that Sher performance was magnificent too - I went to see it twice. Never has the 'bottled spider' metaphor been rendered so physically - with those crutches and sleeves, he seemed to have 6 legs (yes, I know... not 8... but nonetheless...)

[vinteuil]

"I hope people will respect the faith of #Richard III and bury him as the Catholic he was and not by a church which came along later on."

A fair point. To do otherwise would be insensitive.

... but this assumes that the C of E is " a church which came along later on".

Others argue that the C of E remains a "Catholic church" - and does not the Morning Prayer include "I believe in the Holy Ghost; The Holy Catholick Church; The Communion of Saints; The forgiveness of sins; The resurrection of the body; And the life everlasting. Amen" - and does not the C of E still use Quicunque Vult [The Creed of St Athanasius], beginning "Whosoever will be saved : before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholick Faith. which Faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled: without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholick Faith is this : that we worship one God in Trinity .... etc, etc, etc "

So - as I have indicated before - it is arguable that the continuation of the church which R III wd have known is just as likely to be found in the Anglican as in the Romish tradition.

[MrGongGong]

So how many angels can dance on the head of a pin ?

[jean]

So - as I have indicated before - it is arguable that the continuation of the church which R III wd have known is just as likely to be found in the Anglican as in the Romish tradition.

But (as I have indicated before) it is arguable that you are wrong.

(I think the word Romish rather gives you away.)

[vinteuil]

Jean - I was teasing

[jean]

Glad to hear it!

[MrGongGong]

(I think the word Romish rather gives you away.)

Box of frogs the lot of em

[Nick Armstrong]

Box of frogs the lot of em

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So - as I have indicated before - it is arguable that the continuation of the church which R III wd have known is just as likely to be found in the Anglican as in the Romish tradition.

That's a fair comment. But although there are campaigners in York gathering a petition, the Minster itself thinks KRIII's remains should remain in Leicester.

Anyway, the House of York and the House of Lancaster have very little to do with the present day counties of Yorkshire and Lancashire.

[french frank]

"I hope people will respect the faith of #Richard III and bury him as the Catholic he was and not by a church which came along later on."

Many of the Plantagenets and their wives were buried in Westminster Abbey (including Richard's wife), so should he be buried there (albeit according to a Catholic rite) or Westminster Cathedral, which certainly would be described as having come along later on?

The same situation would have applied when 'Edward V' was interred there in 1674.

[BBMmk2]

Welsh soprano, Evelyn Nicholson (who's still rather good) tweeted the following:

"I hope people will respect the faith of #Richard III and bury him as the Catholic he was and not by a church which came along later on."

A fair point. To do otherwise would be insensitive. (I am not, and never have been a Catholic.)

In the ideal world, oit be good if the burial was done as befits a monarch of RIII's time. rather than a modern service.

Any news of a member of The Royal Family attending?

[Nick Armstrong]

Any news of a member of The Royal Family attending?

Better check your diary, o Maestro of Gaunt! [*tugging forelock* emoticon]

[jean]

But to get back to the very serious question of the appropriate burial rite for Richard.

I find there are precedents:


...In 1984 a proper funeral service according to the Use of Sarum was given to the bodies
of the crew of several hundred sailors from the English Tudor warship Mary
Rose, which had sunk in the Solent...back in 1545, after the point when King
Henry VIII had broken with the Pope but before the appearance of new
burial rites in the first English Prayer Book of 1549. There was much
discussion of what to do after the sailors were raised from the deep in 1982,
and they were finally given solemn burial in 1984 with both Anglican and
Roman Catholic clergy participating in the service at Portsmouth Cathedral
according to the old Sarum rites of Requiem that they would have expected
in 1545. The ordinary of the Mass was in Latin with the lessons, bidding
prayer, Lord’s Prayer, and committal in English, and the music was of that
era, by John Taverner, Christopher Tye, and Thomas Tallis.


.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Better check your diary, o Maestro of Gaunt! [*tugging forelock* emoticon]

The spooks are at work again!

[french frank]

Better check your diary, o Maestro of Gaunt!

Or even your DNA.

Anyway, the current Royals aren't related.