Richard the Third

[BBMmk2]

really ?

Simon Farnaby is well known (amongst younger folk than us ?) from the Horrible Histories series on TV
which probably says something

Ah then it's quiote good then im some way, that SF should have been chosen, I think.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

enthusiasm and yoof are not always bad things, even if a tad overwrought .... i confess that my cynicism is too advanced at the expense of my enthusiasm ... and what did cynicism ever make happen that was good or fun or interesting ...

so Two Cheers for Phillipa eh ... but Mr SF's shambling presence was still an utter turn off since he showed little enthusiasm

since we are now addressing the programme and its presenters do i take it we have a consensus that the corpse is as claimed RIII?

[Flosshilde]

and it was a pity that they had that unlempt man as a prenter.This whol;e prpogramme could have been much better. A wasted oppurtunity, I think, in retrospect?

I thought he made a rather good presenter (even if I did think at first that he was another unkempt Simon - http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...4_1156729a.jpg)

[BBMmk2]

I thought he made a rather good presenter (even if I did think at first that he was another unkempt Simon - http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...4_1156729a.jpg)

Maybe I was after a more scholarly approach? Or it was a bit closer to home than to most people here?

[Mr Pee]

since we are now addressing the programme and its presenters do i take it we have a consensus that the corpse is as claimed RIII?

I think that was pretty much accepted from the initial press conference, barring a few loony conspiracy theorists.....

[MrGongGong]

What on earth is the matter with some people ?
Have you REALLY fallen for the nonsense idea that is often peddled to children at school that somehow you can judge someones intelligence and knowledge by their appearance ?

I remember going to a well known university on an open day for prospective students where some terribly awkward looking 18 year olds wearing suits SUITS I have you were being shown round the music department by students who looked like STUDENTS not refugees from a 1950's office

I also once paid a visit to the astronomy department at Cambridge , not a hive of tidy dressers BUT a collection of the most intelligent and knowledgeable folk in the known universe (and a surprising number of Viola players as well )........

[MrGongGong]

barring a few loony conspiracy theorists.....

Talking of which ...... where is ?

[BBMmk2]

since we are now addressing the programme and its presenters do i take it we have a consensus that the corpse is as claimed RIII?[/QUOTE]

I thgink we do Calum!! I do!

[jean]

... but Mr SF's shambling presence was still an utter turn off since he showed little enthusiasm...

We had quite enough enthusiasm - what we needed to balance it was cautious interest, and a little scepticism to start with.

(Speaking with an accent, even a 'heavy' accent, is not the same thing as speaking sloppily.)

No it isn't. That's why I didn't say so.

He didn't really do either though, did he?

Though the hair was lacking in discipline.

[scottycelt]

Yes, but they're just wrong, aren't they?

I was just going to mention these people, because there's a letter from one of them or something similar in today's Guardian.

(Where's scotty when you need him?)

I'm here, jean. don't panic!

I've never quite understood how 'Anglican' can sit comfortably alongside 'Catholic' but maybe I need another lesson in 'equality' from more knowledgeable members. Then again 'Roman Catholic' is not exactly a logical label either ...

I'm also not sure that the hopefully now heavenly Richard III will be particularly fussed whether he is rather belatedly afforded Anglican or Catholic rites in this world but there is no doubt in my mind that he should receive the latter!

[jean]

I've never quite understood how 'Anglican' can sit comfortably alongside 'Catholic'...

Well, the first reference to the ecclesia Anglicana is apparently this:

The abbots and priors of England in their letter to Innocent IV, in 1246, declared that the English Church (Ecclesia Anglicana) is "a special member of the Most Holy Church of Rome" [Matthew Paris (Rolls Series), IV, 531].

The people I am talking about seize upon this, and argue that the present-day English church is identical to the Church therein alluded to. However the more extreme of them argue that the Church of Rome is an invention of the Council of Trent and before that, Rome had no particular authority over the English or other national Churches - perhaps they didn't read the latter part of the reference I quoted above.

I'm also not sure that the hopefully now heavenly Richard III will be particularly fussed whether he is rather belatedly afforded Anglican or Catholic rites in this world but there is no doubt in my mind that he should receive the latter!

Ah, but should it be according to Sarum use, or Tridentine, or some etiolated modern version?

[scottycelt]

Well, the first reference to the ecclesia Anglicana is apparently this:

The abbots and priors of England in their letter to Innocent IV, in 1246, declared that the English Church (Ecclesia Anglicana) is "a special member of the Most Holy Church of Rome" [Matthew Paris (Rolls Series), IV, 531].

The people I am talking about seize upon this, and argue that the present-day English church is identical to the Church therein alluded to. However the more extreme of them argue that the Church of Rome is an invention of the Council of Trent and before that, Rome had no particular authority over the English or other national Churches - perhaps they didn't read the latter part of the reference I quoted above.

Yes, it would appear that they didn't ...

Ah, but should it be according to Sarum use, or Tridentine, or some etiolated modern version?

To satisfy everybody (nobody) it will probably turn out to be the latter, but the Sarum might seem the more appropriate and a nice little 'compromise' between Catholicism (Roman) and Anglicanism?

To use the Tridentine might unnecessarily upset Nigel Farage ...

[jean]

Too European, you mean?

As to the particular character of the Tridentine Requiem, this is interesting. (But ignore the translations he gives of the Dies irae - they're horrible.)

[vinteuil]

I think Anglicans and Roman Catholics can agree that their tree separated into different branches with Henry VIII ; they will disagree as to whether the "truth" went with the Church of England or RC branch.

Howsomdiver - the rites of "The Church" in 1485 will be found to be pretty different from those obtaining in either the C of E or the Roman Catholic liturgy as current in 2013.

Me, I'm an early music, HIPP kind of dude. So I hope that whatever ceremonial is dreamt up for his interment will be something that might be recognisable to someone dying in the true church as it was in 1485...

[jean]

See my post #298, here, for some possible considerations.