Richard the Third

[ardcarp]

I think it was the maternal line (i.e. using mitochondrial DNA) that was all-important in the identification of RIII. This is not what genealogists traditionally do, viz tracing the male heirs.

[MrGongGong]

I saw that and thought gah! What on earth. I thought the whole thing, apart from the service, was rather tawdry. I am sure that York or London(more neutral), would have done a better job. St Paul's Cathedral or Westminster Abbey, perhaps?

London = (more neutral)

A perfect weekend IMV
This

http://www.hearthisspace.com/forthcoming-events.html

followed by Dosa's in Belgrave road
then a load of R3 malarkey to end it all

[P. G. Tipps]

the unnamed person you speak of is one Michael Ibsen, who made a rather good simple coffin.

[Anna]

I saw that and thought gah! What on earth. I thought the whole thing, apart from the service, was rather tawdry. I am sure that York or London(more neutral), would have done a better job. St Paul's Cathedral or Westminster Abbey, perhaps?

But it's not a proper funeral, merely a reinterment. He had the last rites, in an admittedly hasty, but proper Catholic burial by the monks, and was placed next to the high altar at Greyfriars. Of course, in the Reformation Henry knocked the monastery down not knowing (or caring?) that Richard was there. These ceremonies are simply placing his remains in a more suitable place where they can been seen. I did think there might have been a bit more pomp and circumstance involved yesterday ....

Legally Leics Uni owned the bones as they found them and it was up to them to decide on the location and bearing in mind the revenue from tourism giving a financial boost it's no wonder they chose Leicester, and this was upheld when it went to Appeal. Maybe, if they ever find a document giving his express wishes to be buried in York he can be moved!

[BBMmk2]

But it's not a proper funeral, merely a reinterment. He had the last rites, in an admittedly hasty, but proper Catholic burial by the monks, and was placed next to the high altar at Greyfriars. Of course, in the Reformation Henry knocked the monastery down not knowing (or caring?) that Richard was there. These ceremonies are simply placing his remains in a more suitable place where they can been seen. I did think there might have been a bit more pomp and circumstance involved yesterday ....

Legally Leics Uni owned the bones as they found them and it was up to them to decide on the location and bearing in mind the revenue from tourism giving a financial boost it's no wonder they chose Leicester, and this was upheld when it went to Appeal. Maybe, if they ever find a document giving his express wishes to be buried in York he can be moved!

Yes, ofcourse your perfectly right, Anna. (but some of the events leading up to the service, were tawdry, rather?

[Anna]

Yes, ofcourse your perfectly right, Anna. (but some of the events leading up to the service, were tawdry, rather?

Yes, but you could say they were quaint in a quintessentially English way of fetes! I'm surprised they didn't have Morris Dancers, George & the Dragon, Pig-Sticking, ferret racing, welly-wanging, guess the weight of the fruit cake with real ale and mead served by buxom wenches!

Hopefully Thursday will be a little more reverent.

[mercia]

the revenue from tourism giving a financial boost

yes, this will be great for tourism in Leicester, sellers of white roses etc. Hopefully the pubs were able to cash in yesterday. Actually I can see this idea really taking off with any particularly deprived area digging up its local celebrity (doesn't have to be a monarch), all the better if you already know where they are buried, taking him/her for a ride round the countryside, local am-dram society appropriately dressed, lots of photo opportunities, pop him/her back, bob's your uncle. I think we Brits love a good interment.

[french frank]

Maybe, if they ever find a document giving his express wishes to be buried in York he can be moved!

As was his father, Richard, Duke of York: killed at Wakefield, buried in Pontefract, and subsequently reinterred at Fotheringhay (Northants), where Richard III was born.

Soil from Fotheringhay Castle is apparently to be buried with Richard.

[MrGongGong]

Hopefully Thursday will be a little more reverent.

Lets hope theres a bhangra band, some 'Moorish' dancers and other quintessentially "British" cultural activities

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Lets hope theres a bhangra band, some 'Moorish' dancers and other quintessentially "British" cultural activities

I'll be staying at home, avoiding the programmes and grumbling under my breath to myself about a waste of money - so I'm doing my bit!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

As was his father, Richard, Duke of York: killed at Wakefield, buried in Pontefract, and subsequently reinterred at Fotheringhay (Northants), where Richard III was born.

Soil from Fotheringhay Castle is apparently to be buried with Richard.

and Mary Queen of Scots was executed there:

and then the Castle was left to rot ... a motte is still viewable
so the Middle Kingdom could create a veritable pleasure garden of history for tourists with shenanigans brouhaha and morris dancers &c all along the A47

[ardcarp]

I'll be staying at home, avoiding the programmes and grumbling under my breath to myself about a waste of money - so I'm doing my bit!

It seems about half the posts are bemoaning the waste of money and the other half are saying it's all rather tawdry..i.e. not expensive enough. I guess they got it about right.

[french frank]

and Mary Queen of Scots was executed there:

Well, that's the giddy limit - are those two on the left taking pictures on their iPhones?

[Nick Armstrong]

Hopefully Thursday will be a little more reverent.

I'll be staying at home, avoiding the programmes and grumbling under my breath to myself about a waste of money - so I'm doing my bit!

Well I have watched again the core of yesterday's proceedings, and continue to find it very moving that those old twisted bones, key to a turning point in British history, should vibrate to the sound of the Howells. It's such stunning music - and words...

Take him, earth, for cherishing,
to thy tender breast receive him.
Body of a man I bring thee,
noble even in its ruin.

Once was this a spirit’s dwelling,
by the breath of God created.
High the heart that here was beating,
Christ the prince of all its living.

Guard him well, the dead I give thee,
not unmindful of his creature
shall he ask it: he who made it
symbol of his mystery.

Comes the hour God hath appointed
to fulfil the hope of men,
then must thou, in very fashion,
what I give, return again.

Not though ancient time decaying
wear away these bones to sand,
ashes that a man might measure
in the hollow of his hand:

Not though wandering winds and idle,
drifting through the empty sky,
scatter dust was nerve and sinew,
is it given to man to die.

Once again the shining road
leads to ample Paradise;
open are the woods again,
that the serpent lost for men

Take, O take him, mighty leader,
take again thy servant’s soul.
Grave his name, and pour the fragrant
balm upon the icy stone.

[Flosshilde]

yes, this will be great for tourism in Leicester, sellers of white roses etc. Hopefully the pubs were able to cash in yesterday. Actually I can see this idea really taking off with any particularly deprived area digging up its local celebrity (doesn't have to be a monarch), all the better if you already know where they are buried, taking him/her for a ride round the countryside, local am-dram society appropriately dressed, lots of photo opportunities, pop him/her back, bob's your uncle. I think we Brits love a good interment.

Which was,of course, the whole point of relics, with cathedrals, churches etc competing for fingernails, thorns, blood & bones so they could attract pilgrims (ie tourists) and hefty endowments. Some even went to the extent of stealing remains (Venice & St Mark), setting up rival remains (apparently John the Baptist had two heads), or duplicating bodies (at least three palces claim St Valentine)