Richard the Third

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Just as a matter of interest, Bbm - why do you just cite John of Gaunt as your ancestor? You go back much further than that through his lineage: Edwards III, II and I, Henry III, King John, Henry II (Peter O'Toole!) Queen Mathilda, Henry I, William the Conqueror.

Descendants of John of Gaunt are hereditarily "closer" in their ancestory to William than they are to Richard III!


Usurpers the lot of 'em, of course.

[Bryn]

Did anyone else here watch last night's Channel 4 update on Richard III's spine and its relevance to his fighting prowess and final battle? I messed up recording the first section by switching to HD, but did watch it, and recorded the rest. Very well done, I thought. Those C15 types knew how to make a riding saddle suited to a horseman with scoliosis. Worth catching on 4oD.

[BBMmk2]

Just as a matter of interest, Bbm - why do you just cite John of Gaunt as your ancestor? You go back much further than that through his lineage: Edwards III, II and I, Henry III, King John, Henry II (Peter O'Toole!) Queen Mathilda, Henry I, William the Conqueror.

Descendants of John of Gaunt are hereditarily "closer" in their ancestory to William than they are to Richard III!


Usurpers the lot of 'em, of course.

Well, The Plantagenet Family Tree, is widespread, most certainly. RIII would be a link to that, as Richard II was an uncle I believe of JoG,and with my family routes going much further back to William I and beyond that to the Kings of Norway.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Richard II was an uncle I believe of JoG

The other way round, Bbm - JofG was brother of the Black Prince, who was RII's father, so Uncle of RII, one of the most powerful people in England when Richard became king at the age of ten. JofG could be said to have been responsible for the "Peasants' Revolt", having been the architect of the Poll Tax (and other laws designed to keep the lower orders in their place). Had he not been in London at the time of the Revolt, the rioters might well have executed him. Fortunately, all his children had been born by then, so you would still be among us even if he had been in London!

You're also a very distant relative of Geoffrey Chaucer (who ended up as JofG's brother-in-law) which for my money is worth more than all of these royals put together!

[BBMmk2]

The other way round, Bbm - JofG was brother of the Black Prince, who was RII's father, so Uncle of RII, one of the most powerful people in England when Richard became king at the age of ten. JofG could be said to have been responsible for the "Peasants' Revolt", having been the architect of the Poll Tax (and other laws designed to keep the lower orders in their place). Had he not been in London at the time of the Revolt, the rioters might well have executed him. Fortunately, all his children had been born by then, so you would still be among us even if he had been in London!

You're also a very distant relative of Geoffrey Chaucer (who ended up as JofG's brother-in-law) which for my money is worth more than all of these royals put together!

Yes, and probably why I have an interest in Chaucer!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, and probably why I have an interest in Chaucer!

[Sir Velo]

But I must say that I can say that I have links with RIII

I wouldn't be singing this from the treetops quite so loudly if one of my ancestors was a multi infanticidal deformed usurping regicide.

[Bryn]

I wouldn't be singing this from the treetops quite so loudly if one of my ancestors was a multi infanticidal deformed megalomaniac.

That "if" regarding the "multi infanticidal" is pretty crucial, what? That may be the picture painted by the Tudors, but it is very much open to question. His role on the murder of Henry VI is also uncertain, though less so.

[amateur51]

Much of the research exceeded my comprehension, but I did a search on 'bottle' and couldn't find it in the paper - his intake of fluid varied in the last 2 years of his life and the argument is that this was an increase in wine (along with richer foods). Not sure about him being a 'bottle a day' man ... ?

Related to William Hague then, no doubt

[Flosshilde]

I see from the BBC news website that the scientists who are examining his remains have found that he 'took to drink' when he became king. This means a bottle of wine a day, it would appear. Jings! What price H. H. 'Perrier Jouet' Asquith or Winston Churchill or any number of 18th century political lushes?

According to the news item, "Richard's diet when he was king was far richer than that of other equivalent high status individuals . Surely the monarch doesn't have any 'eqivalent' individuals - they're at the top of the pile?

[french frank]

Surely the monarch doesn't have any 'eqivalent' individuals - they're at the top of the pile?

In status and power, yes, but I suppose the king didn't always eat alone on a special 'king's diet' which no one else shared?

[Flosshilde]

Louis XIIII did, but he was in a class of his own in most things

[BBMmk2]

I am just thinking about what the reburial service of ire-internment will be like.

[Ockeghem's Razor]

I am just thinking about what the reburial service of ire-internment will be like.

I no longer subscribe to any belief system but was once an Anglican ordinand of a very Percy Dearmer persuasion and I would hope that it would be liturgically a historically informed performance. That would mean Latin mass of requiem in the Sarum Rite (with appropriate vestments: apparelled amices and albs etc) and music from his time (Dunstaple surely would be considered fitting).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

ire-internment

Is this like burying the hatchet?