Playing with trains/ HS2 & 3

[Mr Pee]

Really? I thought that the (Bliar/Brown) government started it and set an example for the bankers to follow, which they did, with gusto - and neither has stopped yet!

And according to another thread, its all Margaret Thatcher's fault.......

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/no%11one-in-a-hurry-to-get-to-birmingham-201201114753/

[aeolium]

Here is another statement of opposition to the scheme.

What is interesting to me is the enormous inaccuracy of the statistical projections in projects of this kind, whether it is the Olympics, or PFI schemes, or the NHS IT scheme that has now been abandoned. People probably no longer remember that the 2005 London bid for the Olympics was based on a budget of around £2bn, which was now exploded to around £9.3 bn. As to projected economic benefits from regeneration etc, you might as well just pick a figure from the air.

Statistics are routinely abused and distorted. This article deals with the misreporting of actual recorded statistics in the past. How much more unreliable are the hypothetical statistics of the future, based upon numerous assumptions and hugely fluctuating variables, such as the meaningless claim that road congestion costs UK businesses £xxbn (whatever the latest figure is). Unless those projected statistics are shown together with all those assumptions and calculations, they cannot be meaningfully evaluated at all.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Really? I thought that the (Bliar/Brown) government started it and set an example for the bankers to follow, which they did, with gusto - and neither has stopped yet!

So are you suggesting the American bankers were influenced by the Blair/Brown government, and that the Greeks, Italians, Portugese, Irish, Spanish, French did likewise?

[ahinton]

And according to another thread, its all Margaret Thatcher's fault.......:erm

She certainly didn't help by selling off assets but her actions and those of contemporary bankers in this regard were as nothing to the selling off and ripping off that occurred under the B/B setup and continues to a large extent today. To return to the topic, however, it does seem odd that the present government favours the outlay of some £32bn on this medium-speed line from London to Birmingham over reducing its borrowings by that amount so as to be in a better position to fund state pensions from income from taxpayers rather than having to top that up with borrowings. I suppose that its building will generate a certain amount of employment which in turn will generate some tax revenue, but I imagine that this will be a vanishingly small discount on the total price, whatever that may eventually turn out to be.

The problem, as scotty implied, is that it's all far too late for this kind of thing now. Rail lines for truly high speed routes need to be a straight as a die and not have to go around this and that; we have very few such in Britain and it doesn't even look as though the proposed new London - Birmingham route will be as straight as it should and the trains that eventually run on it will in any case do so at speeds that are woefully uncompetitive even today, let alone in 2020 when the route supposedly enters service. More low cost flights are the only answer; they're comparatively unfriendly environmentally at the moment (although this could improve in time, given the will and the research) but at least one doesn't have to spend billions that one doesn't even have on building a transport enabling mechanism for which the first travel tickets cannot even be sold for use for another 8 years. Expense apart, rail line building's rather easier in France, a country with hardly any more people than Britain but almost three times its size.

[ahinton]

So are you suggesting the American bankers were influenced by the Blair/Brown government, and that the Greeks, Italians, Portugese, Irish, Spanish, French did likewise?

Not at all; I was referring solely and specifically to what happened in UK, although of course I agree that similar things have occurred elsewhere (and are occurring still) which, broadly speaking, are the responsibilities of the governments of the day of each of the coutries concerned. That said, what, these days, IS an "American banker"? All nations are ever more dependent upon one another and the banking and financial services industry is a particular example of such interdependence; it used once to be said that when America sneezes the world catches a cold and, whilst the truth of that has not waned, it is also the case to say that whenever any country sneezes, everyone else catches a cold and, in the world of instant transcations, the cold is caught far more rapidly.

[Serial_Apologist]

If we are to build new, high-speed rail links, why has no one re-suggested the relatively high-performance, low-energy, low-maintenance monorail with magnetic shoe, which in addition would be space-saving, near-silent, and comparatively discrete for sake of appearances?

[Stunsworth]

If we are to build new, high-speed rail links, why has no one re-suggested the relatively high-performance, low-energy, low-maintenance monorail with magnetic shoe, which in addition would be space-saving, near-silent, and comparatively discrete for sake of appearances?

Because the intention is that HS2 will be able to seamlessly link into the high speed network in mainland Europe.

[Serial_Apologist]

Because the intention is that HS2 will be able to seamlessly link into the high speed network in mainland Europe.

Are you quite sure about that, Steve? I only ask because Boris was on the screen just now huffing and puffing about it being a disgrace if this connection was not in the plans. He isn't always up to speed on these matters, of course...

[ahinton]

Are you quite sure about that, Steve? I only ask because Boris was on the screen just now huffing and puffing about it being a disgrace if this connection was not in the plans. He isn't always up to speed on these matters, of course...

Like the trains won't be when they and the line on which they're to run have been built...

[Serial_Apologist]

Like the trains won't be when they and the line on which they're to run have been built...

[teamsaint]

so back off topic, the politicians, (ALL of them nearly) are the bankers poodles.

Everything follows from this.

As for HS2, why anybody thinks thinks will be built on time, on budget, and with fares that anybody under about £150k a year can afford is beyond me.

I sense another bankers/government/big engineering companies stitch up

Spend the money locally on real projects for real people that can be finished in this decade , is how I would do it.

[Serial_Apologist]

so back off topic, the politicians, (ALL of them nearly) are the bankers poodles.

Everything follows from this.

As for HS2, why anybody thinks thinks will be built on time, on budget, and with fares that anybody under about £150k a year can afford is beyond me.

I sense another bankers/government/big engineering companies stitch up

Spend the money locally on real projects for real people that can be finished in this decade , is how I would do it.

At 66, I shall probably plant a tree.

[ahinton]

As for HS2, why anybody thinks thinks will be built on time, on budget, and with fares that anybody under about £150k a year can afford is beyond me.

Quite - although I'd rather thought that £150k p.a. was the cost of a first class season ticket on it.

Anyway, your point about affordability of fares is a valid one, especially given the usually vastly greater cost of train travel as compared to most flights. I had to go from Bristol to Glasgow and back recently; the all inclusive cost of the flights was under £100 and the comparable train fare was a whisker under £300, which is an even bigger joke when you consider that the flight time is less than an hour in each direction whereas the fastest train service takes more than 5½ hours in each direction. OK, train is city centre to city centre and you don't have so long a wait for train check in as you do at the airport, but the overall journey duration is still very much greater by train and the trip is at least three times the price!

[MrGongGong]

To answer the original question

I do
I went there today to introduce two classes of 10 year olds to Xenakis

but sadly had to drive as there are no trains that arrive early enough !

[ahinton]

To answer the original question

I do
I went there today to introduce two classes of 10 year olds to Xenakis

but sadly had to drive as there are no trains that arrive early enough !

Well, good for you! I'm sure that it was a success and I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when you did this! From where were there no trains early enough, though; not London, surely?